Archivist Notes: This channeling session was during a pregnancy of Tia so Kiri filled in as ring mistress doing an excellent job of it during her absence. This is a two part session with the special guest speakers mentioned on the tape coming in next month's podcast. Since she led things off, Kiri went over some crucial questions to ask oneself before using coercion. Omal came next and when the conversation moved onto the Brotherhood of Light, provided an elucidating discourse on their purpose. Lyka provided the surprise of the night when discussing her hip laser while Treebeard finished up side one helping us understand devas better.

   Treebeard started off side two with a project to solidify our understanding of what it is like to stand in the metaphorical shoes of a deva. A very tired Karra commented on the 3rd dimensional practice of the over-use of chemical treatments for ills where they only mask the problem. Kiri closes out the night with giving us some additional parameters to work with on a project she had assigned both Skip and myself.

Part 1 Listen to this episode (RIGHT CLICK AND OPEN IN A NEW TAB OR WINDOW)
Duration: 45.58 min. - File type: mp3

Part 2 Listen to this episode (RIGHT CLICK AND OPEN IN A NEW TAB OR WINDOW)
Duration: 45.15 min. - File type: mp3

SIDE ONE


(Kiri gets busy as ring mistress)


Kiri: okay, first of all, where were we? Let me see, what were we talking about? Coercion right?

Skip: yeah.

Kiri: okay, coercion and the necessary protocols to protect oneself from getting into trouble. Okay, one of the important things to remember and we harp on this many times is what is the golden rule? Never for....

Russ: personal gain.

Kiri: right but there are exceptions which we have covered in the past.

Russ: uh-huh.

Kiri: one is if by using your skills let us say in a job interview so that you get the job which is paying you more money so that you can exist better and therefore support those people necessary to you as well, then that is a good use of coercion and you're using it it for personal gain. By defining personal gain we can lay out a framework that gives you an area that you can work in. For example, personal gain, what is the definition of personal gain? Anything that benefits yourself for yourself. So by using your coercive skills in a job interview to get that job that you need, it's not exactly benefiting just you is it?

Russ: uh-uh.

Kiri: it can be looked at another way. Supposing that you believe you are the best person for the job and the only person you have to support is yourself. You already have a current job but you're going for a better one. Now, is that right or wrong?

Russ: wrong.

Kiri: Skip?

Skip: I'd say it's right.

Kiri: okay first of all, let's see why Russ says it's wrong.

Russ: well due to the fact that you have the job you're in now.........

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: by using coercion to get another one, you're actually affecting your fate and your course of your life.

Kiri: okay.

Russ: by using coercion do so.......

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: you're changing for the better but it's for personal gain.

Kiri: Skip, why do you think that it's for good?

Skip: you mean why it's right?

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: because you're stepping yourself up in life which means you can help other people more.

Kiri: Skip's closer to the truth. Okay, for example, let us say that I go for a job as an engineer at a facility......let's say that I'm a third dimensional being and I have a strong coercive ability and I go for a job interview at an engineering firm that I want to work at that's going to pay me better and I use my coercion to get it. The way around it is by using your coercive skills and the fact that I'm one of the best engineers around, means that the company will benefit from use of my skills as an engineer which means that it's not for personal gain. You see?

Skip: in other words, you're helping them by helping yourself.

Kiri: that's correct. Now to define personal gain in more detail is something that is beneficial to only you. For example, let's say that I have the hots for a guy right? Again I'm a third dimensional being and I use my coercive skill to get the guy to sleep with me and to have sex with me.

Skip: uh-huh.

Kiri: that's bad because I'm using my coercive skill at that point for personal gratification.

Russ: like you'd ever need to.

Kiri: that's besides the point, that is besides the point, I mean the listeners and readers don't know what I look like. I mean for all's they know, I could weigh 300 pounds, be five foot three.......

Russ: well we described you excellently and we put a picture even in there of you.

Kiri: yes I know but I'm saying, some of the first time readers might not know.

Russ: ahh.

Kiri: but what I'm saying is that to use it for personal gain....let's say I am trying to buy a car right? Don't know why but I'm trying to buy a car and I use my coercive skills to get the best possible deal and in actual fact I get the vehicle for cost. Again that is using my coercive skills for a negative purpose. Or, I'm at a market and I'm haggling over the price of some kind of vegetable matter that I'm going to be eating. Again, that is negative, I am using it for a negative purpose. So the rules of coercion are very, very strict..

Skip: uh-huh.

Kiri: and are laid out in such a way that it is very important to be able to grow spiritually by learning what I can and cannot do. Now there are some gray areas which I'm not going to go into at this time but we will cover that at a later time. Okay now, report time, Skip?

Skip: huh? I'm sorry, go ahead hon.

Kiri: okay, I want to hear your report.

Skip: oh about my verbal coercion?

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: well, I got my grandson to cut the lawn and water it.

Kiri: oh good and is he doing it on a regular basis now?

Skip: uh-huh.

Kiri: good, good, good.

Skip: no, I have to keep after him.

Kiri: ahh, so you have to keep on coercing him.

Skip: yeah.

Kiri: okay, we'll give you half a point for that. Okay, Russell the
Love Muscle.

Russ: now there's a certain ethical question I've got........

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: about coercing people to give me more money.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: and that comes from the fact that I'm increasing my personal gain.

Kiri: but that's not exclusively yours. What do you do with the increase in the personal gain? What purpose does it serve?

Russ: me.

Kiri: and?

Russ: oh and the cats.

Kiri: and the cats and......

Skip: doesn't it pay for the utilities and stuff in the building?

Kiri: and.

Russ: and what?

Kiri: well what do you do with the money once you split it?

Russ: spend it.

Kiri: spend it, good and what does that do?

Russ: that buys me more stuff.

Kiri: which in turn does what?

Russ: well now let's clarify this, personal gain is being only to me?

Kiri: to you.

Russ: well nothing I make moneywise is only for me.

(Kiri claps)

Skip: there you go.

Kiri: you see?

Russ: so another words, I can coerce for any reason to get money?

Kiri: yes.

Skip: yeah as long as you are spending it to let others support themselves by giving you the products.

Kiri: now what you do with the money depends on whether it is good or bad, that is a moral issue, that is not a coercive issue. If you use it to go out and buy alcohol and you live in an alcoholic state of consciousness that's bad, that's a moral question, that's a health question.

Skip: or gamble it away.

Kiri: or gamble it away, that is a moral and a health question. If I'm playing cards and I'm bluffing a lot and I use my coercion to win money, that's negative.

Russ: what if you're using it to feed your family?

Kiri: if I'm using it to feed a family, that becomes a gray area. It depends on is there another way for me to make a fiscal income.

Skip: hmm. See you're smart enough you don't have to do that.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: I don't do that.

Skip: and I don't do it.

Kiri: so you see that the moral issues and ground works are something that are very important to coercion. Being able to decide for yourself with a good, strong moral upbringing on what is good and what is bad. I mean we've laid out a basic framework to work within to add things on. A lot of the lessons that you learn with coercion and especially the lessons that I've set you up to learn teaches you what is good and bad. You Russ have a moral question of that you were only benefiting yourself. By analyzing it and looking at it, what have we learned?

Russ: it's benefiting others.

Kiri: that's correct. And with Skip, we've learned the same thing. We didn't touch on it as lightly or as deeply, we only touched upon it lightly. If you want Skip we can go into it in more detail.

Skip: no that's enough.

Kiri: okay. So it is very important to have a good laid out groundwork for a coercive capability. Coercion in itself is neither good or bad, it's what you do with the coercion that makes it good or bad. As I said earlier, if I use it to coerce somebody for my own personal gratitude, then that becomes a negative purpose because I am manipulating somebody's free will to serve myself and myself only. But if I'm using it to create an income or to create goodwill or to create an opportunity for others, that is good. If I use it for self-advancement that serves no purpose apart from myself whether that is a new job interview or for a transportation device or to get income so that I can go and drink it away or gamble it away or sniff it away or smoke it away, then that is bad but that is a moral issue. It is something that is necessary to be laid out and looked at is the moral issues.

Russ: I see.

Kiri: I mean Tia with her strong moral upbringing is a very good person to give a good example of moral coercion. To use her morals which are very high and very strong is something that is very, very important to lay out for yourself if you're going to be a coercer. In coercing somebody, you have to ask yourself the moral questions of is it for personal gain, will it benefit them, will it benefit others, will it benefit myself, will they learn from it? These five questions are just the start of the kind of questions that you should ask yourself. But you should already know the answers before you coerce. So the thing is to select a representative that is going to be the person that will be coerced but you're not going to actually coerce them because what you're going to do is think, "if I'm going to coerce them, do they meet these criteria?" And you have to lay down your own rules and regulations and criteria for coercion. The framework that we've given you is just a framework that you build upon and trial and error will be best suited to give you what works for you because not everybody is the same in coercion. Some are weaker, some are stronger, some have a different moral persuasion than others. So it is something that is very necessary to lay out for yourself........

Russ: hmmm.

Kiri: within the frameworks that we've given. Of course we will augment and change and improve upon the framework as we look at how you progress with learning your coercive whether it is vocal coercion or mental coercion.

Russ: okay.

Kiri: but you didn't answer the question Russ.

Russ: no, no success. I have plenty of ten hour blocks but the people already have them.

(at the internet café I ran)

Kiri: okay.

Russ: doesn't quite count.

Kiri: no.

Russ: now I did do some coercion last night.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: which was separate from the test.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: but was very effective.

Kiri: so I hear.

Russ: and that was something on my spare time for extra credit.

Kiri: and that doesn't count in class unfortunately.

Russ: I know.

Kiri: it's not extracurricular activity. But, by using your coercion in a classroom environment even though the classroom happens to be at your shop, what are you learning? You're using your coercion in your free time for getting what is necessary to be done.

Russ: uh-huh.

Kiri: whether it is successful in the classroom is a moot point because now you're using it on areas that are needed.

Russ: correct. Which is good.

Kiri: uh-huh. But that doesn't count toward the points.

Russ: ahh well.

Kiri: okay Skip gets half a point, you get no points.

Russ: I should at least get a semi-good point. Kind of like a star or something, a gold star, a no point gold star.

Kiri: what's with these gold stars?

Russ: you never went to kindergarten down here so you're not familiar with them but if you go kindergarten and get like a good score on a test or do something good, they give you a gold star. It depends on your elementary school.

Kiri: oh.

Russ: for small ones.

Kiri: ahh, no we don't do that. We know if we've done good or bad or if we've learned or we have not learned. Okay, now, questions.

(The cat meows.)

Kiri: yes feline? What was your question? Can you enunciate that a little better?

Russ: yeah, give the floor over to Bobkin there.

(One of the house cats.)

Kiri: okay, any more questions?

Skip: I don't think so.

Kiri: well as I'm ring mistress I have my shorts on and I've got my whip and I've got my waistcoat on and I've got my tall hat.

Skip: you've covered it pretty thoroughly tonight.

Kiri: oh thank you, thank you. Okay, catch you guys in the flip side.

Russ: okay, I'll start some tea I think. Want some tea Skip?

---

(Omal comes on to share his wisdom.)


Omal: greetings and felicitations, I see Russ is being mobile.

Russ: getting tea.

Skip: how you doing Omal?

Omal: I am doing well.

Russ: greetings Omal.

Omal: I will be brief and to the point and again Russ, hello.

Russ: hello.

Omal: okay I will be brief and to the point about Kiri's comments and again comment on the fact that she is batting extremely high at this time on her seriousness and has not got overly rambunctious in the last few sessions. Maybe it is something that has aided in straightening her out even though we did have an incident two channeling sessions prior where she has throwing items of clothing at people but in the actual sessions themselves she has been more serious and not as juvenile.

Skip: uh-huh.

Omal: again I must comment on the fact that wearing the mantel as ring mistress may be suiting her. Okay, let us move along to other topics that need to be looked at and I believe Russ, you have some questions for me.

Russ: numerous questions, news, things like that.

Omal: okay let us first of all start with Skip and see if Skip has any questions that he wishes to ask.

Skip: not this evening Omal, go ahead with Russ okay?

Omal: okay.

Russ: all right, I'm not sure if you were kept up to date on the latest changes on the webpage?

Omal: no I have not been so.

Russ: okay, we're making some............Karra and I are working on revamping the entire page.

Omal: you have to remember I do have a base to run.

Russ: I understand, I wasn't sure if people had kept you up-to-date but this is just recently tonight before the session so it's pretty quick notice.

Omal: ahhh.

Russ: so anyway we're basically......we're tearing down the site and replacing it with a more easier interface for people to navigate through.

Omal: okay.

Russ: plus it's adding a lot of the more tools that we have available for us to bring it more up-to-date with the other webpages that are out there and that people are using to bring more attention to it.

Omal: okay.

Russ: so hopefully by the time Ashtar or I mean.......yeah Ashtar.

Omal: Ashtar, Monka and president Tanaka and his lady wife, Lady Gronofsky. (Gonzo)

Russ: right, we're hoping to have that all up-to-date and rocking and rolling.

Omal: okay.

Russ: on other news, we have a report I got today on the Internet on the email about a meta-fest conference the happened in Florida recently.

Omal: uh-huh.

Russ: and in fact it's this week. One of the things I noticed that caught my attention was that from all the people that were there was a really high level of energy and people are sensing that something big is about to happen.

Omal: uh-huh.

Russ: "thing is, there is an absence of fear and panic, it's as if we all knew we were here at this very time for a reason. A feeling of belonging and community came forward as each speaker shared their talent, insight and truth for all." Later on in the article it goes down to, "those in attendance at this event will be least likely to be affected by the sudden trauma that could occur as the earth changes escalate. However they are now better prepared to help others who may be less informed or even in denial."

Omal: okay.

Russ: which brings about a good point about our fellow humans who are either uninformed, do not wish to be informed but in that, we're trying to enlighten people as to the changes that are happening.

Omal: uh-huh.

Russ: and any ideas on a more......a way we could.....

Omal: disseminate the information?

Russ: correct.

Omal: I believe that you are doing what you do best. I also believe that those that do not wish to be informed, do not wish to be informed no matter how much you put the information out, if they do not wish to be informed, they will not be informed. So I believe that they have their own lessons to learn. If they wish to learn, they can learn from many different sources, not just the Hades Base News. We are not just the one mouthpiece, there are many different sources of truth all leading towards the same point. As is stated, everybody has their own lessons to learn. Whether it is from the Hades Base News or from other sources is besides the point. The fact that they will learn when they need to learn is what is important. Whether or not they wish to learn is up to them. By going out and forcing the information on people instead them coming looking for it, defeats the purpose of the lessons. It is saying, "look, this is what you need to learn." It is not letting them learn and saying, "oh, that was a good lesson, we have learned something." Instead of hammering it into them, you are offering them the opportunity to come and find the information if they wish to do so. If they do not wish to do so, then it is irrelevant on how much publicity and information you disseminate. You understand?

Russ: uh-huh. Okay, that makes sense. On another note, we have........I did find another channel that might be able to participate in the conference but she channels Pleiadians.....

Omal: uh-huh.

Russ: so that would give us another representative group though aligned with Ashtar Command......

Omal: yes.

Russ: it will at least give us....that would be three plus if we can get René to work on it.

Omal: uh-huh.

Russ: that would be an extra one.

Omal: okay so that is four but the majority of them are all under the Brotherhood of Light in one capacity or another.

Russ: right.

Omal: we're still having problems getting a hold of the Zeta's, the Reptiloids and the various other factions.

Russ: well I just keep striking out on that Zeta link. I keep going into it and finding more channels on like I said for Peladians but for the Zeta Reticuli, I cannot find this lady to the save my life.

Omal: she is out there, whether or not she is Internet access or not yet is besides the point. The fact is that she is out there and our guestimates are that she will have Internet access here if she does not have it already.

Russ: well good. One thing I noticed was that somebody called the Ashtar Command the air wing of the Brotherhood of Light.

Omal: uh-huh.

Russ: so kind of like the blue guys (the pilots of the base) being the air wing of Hades Base.

Omal: yes, in essence.

Russ: in essence.

Omal: you have to remember Ashtar Command is a very large organization, we are but a very small cog.

Russ: well it is almost as if this was mentioned that Ashtar Command was actually a part......a small part of Brotherhood of Light.

Omal: yes.

Russ: well how big is the Brotherhood of Light?

Omal: it is big.

Russ: oh, I'm just trying to get some reference.

Skip: would that include all forms of life, the Brotherhood of Light?

Russ: I'm not sure on that point, Omal?

Omal: it is something that........it depends on how you look at things. The Brotherhood of and Sisterhood of Light is made up of many, many different entities and beings, all intending on the same purpose but from different angles. It is hard to put a number on how many there are but it certainly counts into very high numbers. The thing is that we all work from different angles and objectives and purposes, all for the same goal which is to increase the vibrational awareness of your planet and therefore to enhance the spiritual growth and learning capabilities so that when the time for changes come, you are ready. Depending on how many people wish to listen depends on whether you define the number as a large number or as a small number. A large number is something that depends on your perspective. To some, a million is a large number. To others, it is a small number. A billion is larger and there again there are differences on the definition of a billion.

Russ: hmm.

Omal: is it a million, million or is it a hundred million? Or is it a hundred, million, million, million? It depends on your definition.

Russ: hmm, now that puts Earth in a perspective of well if the Brotherhood of Light is like extremely large and Ashtar Command is smaller and then Hades Base is smaller......

Omal: uh-huh.

Russ: Earth is smaller.

Omal: no, Earth is just as important as any other planet that is being aided in its spiritual advancement and awareness.

Russ: hmm.

Omal: every planet, every being is just as important as every other being. To sacrifice one for another is not what our purpose is. Our purpose is to help all beings that wish to be helped. Any that do not wish to be helped, we cannot help them because they do not wish to be helped but the hand is always there for them to change their minds, to change their awareness at whatever time they wish. Whether they believe in a single deity, multiple deities, male deities, female deities is besides the point, it is all there for help. Whether somebody chooses one path is up to them, we cannot force a path on an individual, we cannot tell you, "Skip, this is what you must do, Russ, this is what you must do, feline, this is what you must do." That is wrong because you have to learn for yourself what is necessary for your advancements. We, as Kiri said, lay a framework for you to work within if you desire to do so. Kiri is a little bit more adamant on the fact that it is a framework for you to build upon. For my saying, I say that it is a framework that you may wish to use or may not wish to use.

Russ: okay. Hmmm...interesting.

Skip: yeah I understand what Omal is saying but I think in our 3-D society it is more of a foundation perspective word. In other words, if the foundation's there it's built, if it isn't there it isn't built.

Omal: exactly, that is a different way of wording it.

Skip: yeah, it's just a different perspective on words is all it is Omal.

Omal: yeah but regardless, it is whether or not you wish to use the foundation or the framework, that is your choice, we cannot tell you, "you must." For me to say, "you must.........."

Skip: we can't even do that to our people.

Omal: that is correct........is taking away your choice, you're free will and as Kiri pointed out, that is very wrong.

Skip: yeah we can't even do that to our own kind. Some people try it......

Omal: uh-huh.

Skip: but it still don't work.

Omal: but you see the importance of the choice.

Skip: yeah.

Omal: choosing is very, very important. Okay, any more questions?

Skip: no, not from me.

Russ: just one.

Omal: okay.

Russ: Skip, myself, others who have joined our group, yourself and others on Hades Base and Mark..........

Omal: uh-huh.

Russ: all of us have all agreed at some point to come together to work together.

Omal: uh-huh.

Russ:  our work influences other people in various ways. We kind of are at a point where we'll see those benefits or not so much benefits as our lessons throughout the lives that we lead and what we do. Our influence is going to be so important for ourselves. That's the key right?

Omal: uh-huh.

Russ: is to work on....each of us even though we come into group, with work together with each other.....

Omal: but also independently.

Russ: also independently right.........to enrich ourselves and each other.

Omal: uh-huh.

Skip: uh-huh.

Russ: okay, so those people who come to our page are coming in the same way, they've agreed to join us in this learning experience.

Omal: correct. It is.....sorry.

Skip: excuse me I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

Omal: no, no.

Skip: either to join us or to get the information where they can learn and join us in the future is what it looks like to me. Because you put out a heck of a page.

Russ: hmmm, well we do a lot of work there, makes it kind of exciting.

Skip: uh-huh.

Omal: but you are quite correct in saying that whether or not everybody comes together that reads the Hades Base News for one time is besides the point. It is more along the lines of that they read, they're participating by reading and by learning but we cannot force them to learn, we cannot force them to read, that is their choice. It is important to stress that everybody has free will. We are not telling anybody, "this is the way it is, this is the end-all and be-all." No it is not. There are many different paths for many different individuals and it is up to them to choose the path that is right for them.

Russ: hmm okay.

Omal: okay.

Russ: excellent, thank you Omal.

Omal: no problem. Live long, prosper and, I'll be back.

Skip: thank you.

---

(Kiri's back to hand off to the next speaker)


Russ: hi Kiri.

Kiri: yo.

Skip: how you doing sweetie?

Kiri: I'm doing good.

Skip: good.

Kiri: uh-huh. Okay, so I'm still batting very high in all miles from a reckoning huh. Okay, let's see what mischief I can cause.

Skip: just nevermind.

Kiri: party pooper.

Skip: behave yourself.

Kiri: if I could throw stuff at you I would.

Skip: I know, like your blouse and your britches and........

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: just never mind that too.

Kiri: okay, I suppose I better do the ring mistress thing as I'm in charge and hmm, that's interesting. Okay, I'll put on the next speaker and I'll be back doing my ring mistress duties and I want to discuss a few things towards the end that I want to see how things are progressing with other projects.

(speaks to one of the technicians in the room)

Kiri: okay, where'd I put my notes....pass them over please? Thank you.

---

(Lyka takes her turn in the channeling field)


Lyka: (sighs heavily) hello.

Russ: hello.

Lyka: hey, hey.

Skip: hi sweetie.

Lyka: how's it going?

Skip: well......

Russ: good.

Lyka: thank you, it's going good as well. I can't stay too long, have pea brain for a bladder. Well?

Russ: what?

Lyka: want me to kick your butt Russ?

Russ: ahhh.

Lyka: you're having brain lock there aren't you?

Russ: I am.

Lyka: hey Skip.

Skip: yes darling?

Lyka: shall we blow something up?

(Skip bursts out laughing)

Skip: Lyka?

Lyka: of course.

Russ: of course.

Skip: oh darling.

Lyka: I'm tired, I've got a pea for a bladder and.....

Skip: and have you had the baby yet?

Lyka: no, it's not due until September.

Skip: oh, no wonder you've got a painful bladder.

Lyka: uh-huh.

Skip: oh.

Lyka: late September.

Skip: late September?

Lyka: uh-huh.

Skip: oh my goodness gracious.

Russ: we haven't heard from you in a while darling.

Skip: yeah, where you've been?

Lyka: where have I been? I've been studying.

Skip: up at the study.

Lyka: uh-huh.

Skip: every week?

Lyka: every week.

Skip: what have they got chained up to the table up there?

Lyka: oh you saying that my education is not as important as coming down to talk........

Skip: no, no, no, no, no. I wasn't saying it that way. I asked you if they had you chained to the table up there.

Lyka: not to the table in the library or the classroom. I've been chained to the bed but that's besides the point.

Skip: I've got to make a joke with you once in a while.

Lyka: uh-huh, I was about to say, you want me to kick your butt too.

Skip: no, you ain't going to do that.

Russ: well it's good to see you darling.

Lyka: oh thank you. Okay, you guys got anything you want to ask or talk about? Strategy, brainstorming sessions.

Russ: absolutely, we can go all night on something like strategy and other things like that.

Skip: well I've got my cement block wall up in the back of my house.

Lyka: what's this?

Russ: feline.

Lyka: ahhh.

Russ: domesticis.

Skip: with a steel gate.

Lyka: ahhh, steel gate.

Skip: yeah.

Lyka: how thick?

Skip: chain-link.

Lyka: chain-link hmmm, doesn't offer much protection does it?

Skip: yeah quite a bit. It rolls, it don't swing.

Lyka: but chain-link has holes in it right?

Skip: that's okay, I can see them coming.

Lyka: uh-huh oh okay. What kind of thickness of the wall and how tall?

Skip: oh they're let's see.......the blocks are eight inches thick and they're filled with cement and rebar.

Lyka: okay, will that stop penetration?

Skip: oh yes, with small arms, it won't stop armor naturally.

Lyka: no, no.

Skip: but it will stop small arms.

Lyka: okay, small arms is defined as what size?

Skip: up to I would say......

Russ: 50 caliber?

Skip: oh yeah, it will stop 50 caliber. It won't stop 20 mm though.

Lyka: oh okay.

Skip: Gatlin gun, it'll just chew it up.

Lyka: sizes are confusing me a little bit.

Skip: small arms is anything that's carried with ease I believe.

Lyka: oh okay.

Skip: okay? Machine guns, rifles, well-stocked grenades(?).

Lyka: so Thompson is a small arm then?

Skip: yeah, it's small arms.

Lyka: okay.

Skip: okay?

Lyka: and a Kalashnikov is a small arm?

Skip: a what?

Russ: AK....AK-47.

Skip: oh yeah, yeah because that's just a .223.

Lyka: and a Beretta 50 caliber?

Skip: 50 caliber?

Russ: it's not going anywhere.

Skip: it would chew it eventually but it will stop it for a long time.

Lyka: okay.

Skip: but a 20 mm Gatling gun which is a rotating barrel gun, it'd just chew it down because it would be so much impact.

Lyka: okay so the impact is also a defining.........

Skip: small arms, yeah.

Lyka: okay.

Skip: yeah.

Lyka: so my hip laser would be classified as a small arm.

Skip: laser? I don't know what your penetration is with a laser so I couldn't answer that.

Lyka: I can penetrate through solid rock to about 2 feet.

Skip: then it's not classified as small arms.

(Russ starts laughing)

Lyka: okay I'm confused now.

Skip: no, you have more capabilities with a laser then we have with projectile type weapons.

Lyka: we use projectile weapons too, it depends on the environment that we're in.

Skip: yeah but your lasers have more penetration then our projectile type.

Lyka: but it won't penetrate our body armor.

Skip: what, lasers?

Lyka: no, it won't penetrate. Projectile weapons will. They will..........a repeated blow from a projectile weapon, let us say you're firing......you fire ten shots at a particular point, that will make it penetrate because the concussion will fracture the material whereas a laser if you leave it on full blast will penetrate because it cooks the armor and breaks it down. But the repeated blow of a projectile on the same spot, and it has to be the same spot, will break down the armor.

Russ: so it means it's a ceramic-based armor?

Lyka: uh-huh.

Skip: oh okay well we don't have ceramic-based armor.

Russ: no we have Kevlar.

Skip: we use Kevlar and that's not ceramic.

Lyka: that's made out of a fabric correct?

Skip: yeah it's a carbon....

Russ: right which means that the laser would penetrate it but a projectile wouldn't.

Skip: that's correct.

Russ: so it's the opposite of what you're using.

Skip: yeah our armor would be the opposite as your armor.

Lyka: uh-huh.

Skip: where a knife will penetrate our armor....

Lyka: uh-huh.

Skip: our body armor, a projectile from a gun will not.

Lyka: ahh but wouldn't the velocity of the projectile be burnt off with the discharge, the heat from the discharge?

Skip: no, just the projectile foot per second makes the impact.

Lyka: oh okay.

Skip: we don't have.....we do have but we don't use them because they're in military hands, projectiles out of rifles that will explode on contact.

Lyka: uh-huh, yes I've seen those, they're nasty.

Skip: yeah they are, they get awful nasty.

Lyka: uh-huh.

Skip: but they're pretty good sized, they're about the same size as probably an 8 gauge shotgun which is pretty good-sized.

Lyka: okay, bigger size?

Skip: okay, 8 gauge shotgun, how we classify shotguns is you take a pound of lead.

Lyka: uh-huh.

Skip: and cut it into 8 balls and one of them balls would fit down the barrel.

Lyka: okay.

Skip: that's how they gauge shotguns in this 3-D.

Lyka: yeah I'm being shown how big a pound is.

Skip: okay a pound is probably....I'd say probably as big as my fist.

Lyka: okay. That gives me an idea.

Skip: so that gives you all the gauges for our shotguns.

Lyka: could you hold your fist up a little higher so I can have a look see on the monitor? Okay.

Skip: that gives you all the gauges for all of our shotguns.

Lyka: okay.

Skip: if you're talking about a 20 gauge, there are 20 balls to a pound.

Lyka: okay.

Skip: 16? 16 balls to the pound. 12, 10, 8, 4, each one gets bigger.

Lyka: okay, I think I understand now.

Skip: okay.

Lyka: okay. I better go, I've got a micro bladder

Russ: okay, fair away.

Skip: okay, you gotta go, she's gone. (chuckles)

---

(Kiri returns)


Skip: she's getting pretty uncomfortable, September? Let's see this is July, August...she's only got three months to go.

Russ: it's getting there.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: hi baby.

Kiri: yo, I'm back okay.

Russ: hi Kiri.

Kiri: before he dozes off again.

---

(Treebeard joins the channeling session)


Treebeard: greetings.

Russ: greetings Treebeard.

Skip: greetings.

Treebeard: greetings Skip.

Skip: how are you tonight Treebeard?

Treebeard: I am functioning well. Greetings Russ.

Russ: greetings Treebeard, an honor to have you with us again.

Treebeard: thank you, it is my being of pleasure to being here. Okay, will we continue where we being left off a few moments ago?

Russ: uh-huh.

Treebeard: I am asking, not saying.

Russ: oh, yes.

Treebeard: okay, if we continue on the explanation being of the deva and interrelationship with the trees, you being of having questions?

Russ: uh-huh.

Treebeard: ask.

Russ: okay, the problems that one sees when let's say a tree is cut down or a forest is leveled, the deva who is protecting that forest is going to feel kind of upset because of that but let's say there's new growth planted, will a new deva come in perhaps to take the charge or will the old deva stay and watch the youth grow?

Treebeard: it depending on purpose of area that is being cut. If it is as I being of seeing on your planet farming, it is more than likely that deva not being of concerned with tending so much to of trees but overall caring for area being of different kind of deva. But if it is forest that is being of cut for first time and of great age, then deva being of very upset react in numerous ways. Being of either anger and hostility or sadness and dejection. But depending on reaction of deva depends on whether or not it turns to tending or gives up and leaves. It is uncommon from my perception of devas being giving up unless it of happening repeatedly and fact being that devas of great age, it is hard for them to see it as of being common for area to be cut and cleared regularly. Also because of great age, they are knowing of that it is all part of cycle. So it is more a feeling of temporary loss as you would feel for the loss of a plant in your garden.

Russ: hmmm.

Treebeard: I am thinking of exercise to give you understanding of deva's reaction. In your area, you have many plants.

Russ: yes.

Treebeard: what I am thinking of doing for you is asking you to dig up one small sapling tree and being putting in pot and seeing it grow.

Russ: okay.

Treebeard: and if failure to grow and of dying, get another one until you get one of growing.

Russ: we've got lots of little saplings growing.

Skip: yeah, yeah, you've got a whole lot.

Russ: sure.

Treebeard: or another option is you are taking of seed and planting seed. One seed and seeing if it being of growing but I suggest due to your short attention span, it would being of better to pick one......


SIDE ONE ENDS

SIDE TWO


(Treebeard continues from where he left off)


Treebeard: ......that would being of hard for you to be of patience to watch a seed grow or not grow.

Russ: right.

Treebeard: you do not have gift of ultrasence to being of probing to see if seed is fertile and active as opposed to not being fertile of active.

Russ: uh-huh.

Treebeard: so it would being better for you to experience deva not from very conception but from early stage of greening. When plant being of greening, you will see many times how of growing and by not telling anyone of what is purpose, you will also see lessons of deva of what deva experience when people unthinkingly do harm to of greening growth.

Russ: uh-huh.

Treebeard: so it is only you and Skip that know of project and host when he listen to recording.

Russ: okay.

Treebeard: so it is lesson to see how little harm can being of done without consideration and feeling of deva. But being of remembering that you as deva will have to tend and care and look after and think of all possible happenings to protect this seedling.

Russ: good idea.

Treebeard: lesson for you Skip if you wish so, do you?

Skip: I have....I have about 4 trees in pots at home that were a gift to me.

Treebeard: uh-huh.

Skip: they're only about maybe a foot to 18 inches tall, very small and I've been taking care of them.

Treebeard: and so you've being of understanding.

Skip: I've was thinking about putting one of them in the ground.

Treebeard: okay that is good starting for you.

Skip: okay. Yeah, center of my front yard.

Treebeard: okay you will have to being of thinking as of deva.

Skip: okay.

Treebeard: it will be for you the same as Russ, no one being but of Russ and host to know what lesson is.

Skip: okay.

Treebeard: so even young man who tended of garden must not know that you will be overseeing and watching that of greening young growth.

Skip: okay, that's understandable.

Treebeard: so it give you both lesson in devaship.

Skip: okay great.

Russ: okay.

Skip: super yeah, that will work super. Thank you.

Treebeard: no problem. I also of thinking that it will give you pride in watching of greening to happen.

Russ: uh-hmm.

Skip: okay.

Treebeard: okay now, let us talk on other matters that you are thinking on.

Russ: okay, my question is in relationship to devas and their interaction with other etheric entities. For example, how do they work with weather to help get rain and so forth onto areas that need rain and so forth and keep that delicate balance of nature going?

Treebeard: they work of energy manipulation as best as possible. If no moisture being able to get, they will turn and look at area and see what can be protected. Even if being of whole area dies because of no precipitation, then they will make sure that opportunity for greening will re-occur. In such of helping trees of certain tolerances breed so that they lay down of seeds that once precipitation comes, then greening can return. Or they work in way where it is common for fire and fire devas that seeds that become necessary for roasting and burning to germinate. So working within environment is of importance of the greening that is necessary. It is almost like of you manipulating genes for specific characteristics within plants or other such.

Russ: hmmm, yeah because we're experiencing a drought right now in many parts of our country.

Skip: yeah.

Russ: being blamed on a weather phenomenon known as La Niña and it's something I was wondering how the devas work on such a problem where there is just no growth.

Treebeard: you being having to of remember that devas of great age have seen many different of climates on your planet in areas. For example area that once was a shallow sea is now of being of desert. So it is of necessary to realize that they have long view even in planning of now. You think of hot time to being of coming calling global warming.

Russ: uh-huh.

Treebeard: devas look further ahead to of time where global cooling will be of occurring.

Russ: the next ice age.

Treebeard: that is being of your cooling.

Russ: hmm.

Treebeard: but devas plan that far ahead. Whether it is a 1,000 of your cycles or 10,000 is a point of little concerning of devas. Their concerning is of long term.

Russ: hmm, I didn't realize that, I think us being living short-term we don't see it far ahead but....

Skip: yeah.

Treebeard: even my age of long time is small comparing of devas. On home world devas having been there for many millions and one deva that I call when I was much of younger then Russ to area that I adore and make garden, feeling I get of deva was of being of great age and when I say of great age I mean of inconceptual length of time.

Russ: there's a raccoon on the porch.

Skip: oh is there?

Russ: one of our local wildlife were looking in the door just now.

Treebeard: I see faint aura outside of scavenging animal.

Russ: right, that would be the raccoon.

Treebeard: I also of notice incredible energy burst towards there.

Russ: yes the kitten is rather wondering about that.

Treebeard: Kiri is of saying that the scavenging animal should be made sure not to enter.

Russ: right.

Treebeard: okay let us of finishing........

Russ: okay.

Treebeard: as I am of tired.

Russ: all right well I'm all done myself.

Skip: yes so am I, thank you Treebeard.

Russ: thank you Treebeard.

Treebeard: you are being of welcome.

---

(Kiri transitions between speakers)


Russ: hi Kiri.

Kiri: yo, yo. So, you've got one of those bandit guys wandering around.

Russ: yeah, he was looking inside the door.

Kiri: ooohhhh.

Skip: I closed it down far enough they can't get in. He's off the porch now.

Russ: it's kind of neat though, little guy going.....looking right at me.

Kiri: uh-huh. Okay, let's....I'm glad that Treebeard thinks in Sirian and transmits it to us up here so we can hear what he's actually thinking because I was trying to follow that in English. Some of that was very hard to follow.

Skip: I thought it was pretty neat.

Russ: I thought it was very informative.

Kiri: but his phraseology is hard.

Russ: ahh.

Kiri: you've got to remember, English isn't my language.

Skip: no, this is true too.

Russ: that's true.

Kiri: even though I try when I'm talking to you guys and I'm talking to Mark, I try to think in English, it's very hard.

Skip: but even with him reversing his words........

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: it's still pretty easy to understand what he's putting across.

Russ: definitely understandable.

Skip: yeah he translates real well, he really does.

Kiri: well if I get to be that age and I'm that learned on my chosen field, I'll be very, very happy.

Skip: hmm, he does a good job.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: he really does.

Kiri: and as he gets up slowly and picks up his...his rabbit, doesn't have the snake with him tonight. Do you know what he calls his rabbit?

Skip: hmmm.

Kiri: rabbit.

Skip: nugget?

Kiri: rabbit.

Skip: oh just a straight rabbit.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: oh okay.

Kiri: and actually calls him lepus I've been corrected.

Russ: that's true.

Kiri: which is Latin for rabbit I believe.

Russ: right.

Kiri: but snake is called snake and snake is big. I think the nearest thing you would describe him as would be something like a cross between an anaconda and a python.

Russ: big snake.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: it's a snake.

Kiri: okay, I better put on my big sis.

Skip: all right then, bye.

(Kiri gives a big sigh)

---

(Karra starts to channel)


Russ: hello love.

Karra: hello hon, how's it doing?

Russ: good.

Skip: hey sweetheart.

Russ: hey, how's it going Skip?

Skip: just fine, how about you?

Karra: oh a little tired, it's been a long day.

Skip: whatcha been doing?

Karra: getting everything ready for the visits.

Skip: oh okay.

Karra: yeah we've got podiums to make, we've got things to analyze before they arrive.

Russ: podiums?

Skip: uh-huh.

Karra: uh-huh. Going to give a little speech. I've got to give the speech for when they arrive, the acceptance and welcome speech.

Russ: oh okay. Have you found an ambassador yet?

(an ambassador from Sirius to represent Sirius in the conference)

Karra: that's what they're coming to discuss.

Russ: all right, sounds good.

Karra: uh-huh. Okay, what are we here to talk about tonight?

Russ: well I could talk about the webpage but....

Karra: I already know about that.

Russ: I'll think of other things to talk about.

Skip: why don't you pick a good subject.

Karra: me?

Skip: yeah.

Karra: my mind's tired. Russ, how tired am I?

Russ: exhausted.

Skip: and the mind isn't functioning too well.

Karra: no.

Skip: okay.

Karra: so it is more......as I am at a low ebb energy wise, more for you to pick my brain.

Skip: let's go with this, why don't you just relax?

Karra: okay, ask questions, I'll relax and answer whatever comes to mind.

Russ: go ahead.

Skip: all right, this isn't the engineer?

Russ: no this is the healer.

Karra: uh-huh.

Skip: the healer okay, okay.

Karra: yes the engineer is my.....

Skip: all right, that's.......okay.

Karra: my little sister.

Skip: all right, thank you. I have a question to ask.......

Karra: uh-huh.

Skip: and it's been bothering the hell out of me for quite a while. I'm a healer or I have that gift.

Karra: uh-huh.

Skip: what I can't seem to get through my thick head is why all these educated practitioners have to or seem to think that they have to induce chemicals in everybody's body to cure something that 99% of the time is not physical but mental.

Karra: because it is part of........we discussed last time, rituals. You remember?

Skip: yeah I remember the ritual but hon, even a ritual doesn't.....

Karra: use the chemicals?

Skip: these gentlemen or ladies however they are that graduated from these schools of medicine, are all what can I say? Physical......

Karra: yes, physical practitioners.

Skip: practice but they've come down to a point of where it seems that 90% of them want to use chemicals to try to cure something that is not physical.

Karra: oh, I see where you're going, you're talking about the psychiatrists? People that deal with the minds of....

Skip: well even they induce chemicals in their people to.......this whole society seems to be going chemical happy is what I'm trying to get at and why? Chemicals don't do anything for the body.

Karra: the way I think things are happening, in my planet's history we went through a phase very similar where we used chemicals to control what we perceived as imbalances. What we were actually doing was masking the problem. It was........let's take a child that is hyperactive.

Skip: uh-huh, go ahead.

Karra: the question you have to ask is why is the child hyperactive? What is first of all making the child hyperactive? Is it something in the diet, is it a particular person, is it a particular environmental factor? Once you've ruled out all these factors and there are numerous other ones......you'll have to forgive me for only taking three.......I'm as I said a little tired.

Skip: no go ahead.

Karra: let us say you've ruled out all the environmental factors and the child is still hyperactive. That's the way the child is but if you look over the long-term at a hyperactive individual or take an individual that was hyperactive, they serve a very important purpose. People that are hyperactive may be hyperactive because they have a lot to achieve and have set themselves lots of objectives and goals that they need to achieve. So by prescribing chemicals to slow them down, you may be doing them a disservice. Or you could be doing them a service in extending their life so that they can fulfill all the things that they wish to do. Or you may be making it so their life is cut short because of the chemicals interacting in a way that slows down their processes and they live their natural length of time that they were supposed to live but do not achieve the goals and objectives that they had set themselves so they have to do it all over again. There are certainly times where it does become necessary to slow an individual down to a point where they can step outside and see what they're doing and lay a path work or pathway that will slow them down naturally once the chemicals are removed but the chemicals should only be used as a temporary measure whilst other options are looked at if absolutely necessary but not willy-nilly handed out like confectionery. That is something that is alarming to hear that there is a large number of people being given chemicals to calm them down.

Skip: or to fix something that isn't physically wrong with them.

Karra: correct.

Skip: now I have the reputation of being a workaholic or I have had for most of my life.

Karra: uh-huh.

Skip: I was hyper, that's all.

Karra: okay, so you're hyper, you know what it's done for you.

Skip: made a heck of a good life.

Karra: uh-huh.

Skip: for me and my family.

Karra: exactly.

Skip: if I hadn't been hyper I wouldn't have been able to make that good of a life.

Karra: that's correct. Would you wish to be no ambition, no will to do anything, somebody else will take care of you, somebody else will look after you.

Skip: uh-uh, that won't work for me. That still don't work for me even at my advanced years.

Karra: well if I was on earth years, I would be in my late 20's to mid-30's.

Skip: yeah I know. I'm almost 3 times that okay? But I still can't let other people take care of me. In fact I'm still looking to find somebody to take care of for me.

(Skip starts to laugh)

Karra: uh-huh, that is good.

Skip: huh?

Karra: that is good to have those ambitions and goals and objectives.

Skip: oh yeah, I'm not going to stop just because I've got into the 60 years.

Karra: age is irrelevant.

Skip: yeah well I figure I've still got another good 30 years left.

Karra: that's good, that's good.

Skip: and I'm going to enjoy 'em.

Karra: uh-huh. I've got at least another good hopefully 800 years.

Skip: yeah you bugger. (laughs)

Karra: that's something I do not enjoy.

Skip: but what I was getting at is, I've run across so many people just in the last I would say 10 years that physicians, now I'm not specifying male or female but physicians okay? Have kept pumping into them different chemicals trying to cure something that's not curable physically, it's a mental thing.

Karra: uh-huh, well also I think it's having looked around and seeing research when I was more concentrated on the healing, it was more of a thing of, "well that's fixed the problem but you've got to take these medications and chemicals for the rest of your life." To me that is a waste, I totally agree with you Skip but you see getting back to the children, it is also an importance on laying the correct foundation and if necessary, taking a harsh hand and laying down parameters that are important that will form in later life. If you have a hyperactive child, you have to think, "okay, how can you harness that energy from that child to benefit the child and improve the surroundings for that child?"

Skip: I think this is why I've been trying to learn so hard of my physical and spiritual healing powers.

Karra: yes and then on the other side is what you do with somebody that has no will and ambition and how do you get them motivated?

Skip: yeah well, the only thing you can do in my estimation on something like that is continue to feed them energy and keep setting examples for them. But it still comes down to what we were discussing earlier, it's their choice.

Karra: yes, Omal did cover that.

Skip: yeah, it's their choice. You can set all the examples and give them all the energy in the world but it's still their free choice to do or not to do. It helps, it really does.

Karra: yes.

Skip: coercion will help or energy examples, all these things help but it's still really when it comes down to push and shove, it's still their choice.

Karra: yes you're very correct on that. Anyway, I'm going to wander off as I've been offered to sleep in the guest room.

Skip: oh, fantastic.

Karra: so I'm going to go and lie down for a little while.

Russ: take care love, get some rest.

Karra: I will.

Skip: thank you, thank you, I appreciate it.

---

(Kiri returns to close out the session)


Skip: it's starting to irritate the heck out of me. Hi babe.

Kiri: hey, carry on talking, I'm listening.

Skip: feeding them all kind of medications to try to fix something that's not physical but up here in their spirit and their mind.

Russ: well they don't understand that part, the only know one way of dealing with it, that's all they were taught.

Skip: yeah right. Go ahead sweetheart.

Kiri: no I'm just listening with interest.

Skip: no I'm just running my big mouth.

Kiri: okay.......

Russ: I've got an engineering question for you sweetheart.

Kiri: uh-huh?

Russ: have you ever heard of a gentleman, a third dimensional Earth gentleman named John Hutchinson?

Kiri: doesn't he do what's it, spatial engineering? Not spatial engineering, constructional engineering?

Russ: not sure I don't think so. This is a guy who lives up in Canada and he went aboard a bunch of old battleships and other naval vessels that were getting ready for the scrap heap. He took a bunch of electronic gear out of them with their permission and bought them or was given to him........

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: and proceeded to go ahead and build an antigravity device.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: basically creates a electric field and used a lot of stuff from Tesla to actually create what's called the Hutchinson Effect which is a fact of antigravity.....

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: and I've seen like a selection of videos on TV of this stuff actually rising up in air.

Kiri: it's very easy to do actually to build an antigravity thing. You know how you do it?

Russ: hmm?

Kiri: and I can tell you, I've had it confirmed.

Skip: you ornry thing.

Kiri: it's very, very simple. You get yourself two electromagnets. You make sure you have the positive side facing the positive side. Now what happens when you have positive facing positive?

Russ: they repel.

Skip: they repel.

Russ: repel each other. Right, which is what they think happened here but.....

Kiri: very simple.

Russ: pretty interesting stuff to watch because actually it wasn't magnetic, due the fact that paper was doing this too. And paint and other things which aren't metallic-based.

Kiri: then what they're doing is they're electrifying the surfaces so that it's positive to positive or negative to negative.

Russ: so they're charging it?

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: yeah, they're giving it a charge. We used to do the same thing with paint.

Russ: yeah I mean that's what I was watching, cans of paint, the paint would actually go up to the ceiling.

Skip: no I mean actual paint, not cans of it, paint.

Russ: yeah, the paint would come out of the can and go straight to the ceiling.

Skip: okay, we do it all the time in industry.

Russ: how?

Skip: you negative charge your parts, throw them through the paint booth and you positive charge your paint and the paint goes right to it and there's no overspray.

Russ: oh.

Kiri: uh-huh, very easy, very simple.

Skip: they've been doing this for 25, 30 years with paint.

Kiri: uh-huh, you just take something that you.....

Skip: but I've never seen what you were talking about.

Russ: big globs the paint, straight to the ceiling.

Skip: yeah, yeah, yeah. No I've never seen that.

Kiri: that's easy to do.

Skip: for you.

Russ: so they put a charge to whatever it is.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: yeah they put a positive charge or vice a versa, whichever but they put one charge to the parts that needs to be painted and put the reverse charge on the paint and the paint will actually suck to the metal.

Russ: now how's it that you can charge a piece of paper?

Kiri: same principle.

Russ: I mean it's like it seems like paper can't be......it's not a conductive......

Skip: it's got atoms in it.

Kiri: everything has a conductive ability, some lesser, some greater.......everything.

Skip: including you and me.

Kiri: uh-huh. For example, where's the feline?

Russ: it went scattering off.

Skip: but you can comb your hair and make it stand straight up. Yeah that's what she's doing to Mark's hair right now.

Kiri: apart from he doesn't have very much hair left.

Russ: okay.

Skip: but that's static electricity rather than charged electricity.

Russ: charged electricity.

Skip: yeah.

Russ: what's the difference though?

Skip: and yet there isn't.

Russ: I didn't think so.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: because the static electricity can be harnessed and still used as current.

Kiri: okay, sidetracking for a moment.

Skip: I'm sorry?

Kiri: sidetracking for a moment, totally off on a different track.

Skip: go ahead.

Kiri: okay, how are we......I want a progress report on your projects.

Russ: the 10,000 people.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: oh.

Russ: I don't have one so I've got a month to work on it though so....

Kiri: yeah but just interest for my sake.

Skip: I think I've got it pretty well figured out to where I come down at okay but I want to do a little bit more research.

Kiri: okay, that's good, that's good.

Skip: I really do because I'm looking at how they're going to handle summer, winter.....

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: growing seasons, water, fuel.....

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: light and dark.....

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: housing and a growing period and what can be grown.

Kiri: okay, have you looked at environmental factors such as the safety of the land, the surrounding areas, precipitation?

Skip: a little bit but not that much because there's several different areas where this can be established to defend yourself against wild animals or even if the 10,000 people split up and they become two tribes or four tribes or whatever, you still set up a defensive environment with still all the other things with it.

Kiri: uh-huh, you've thought this out very carefully, I'm impressed.

Skip: well the defensive idea or mode of this thing is going to be of the lowest priority for me. The biggest priority is feeding these people.....

Kiri: oh of course.

Skip: and housing them and clothing them and being able to make it through the year.

Kiri: okay.

Skip: okay?

Kiri: uh-huh, I've actually picked a location that I believe is ideal but I can't disclose that.

Skip: no, no, no, no, no, just let me pick out my own location.

Kiri: of course, of course but also what I want to do when I tell you my location is to pick fault with it.

Skip: no, I don't think so.

Kiri: when the month time is up.

Skip: okay.

Kiri: okay let's...

Skip: I've been working on it.

Kiri: that's good, that's great, it's a nice little project isn't it?

Skip: yeah.

Kiri: it keeps you very.......gives you lots of things to think about and lots of variable factors. Now why did I give you guys this project?

Skip: to keep our mind occupied probably.

Kiri: and there is a learning lesson behind it.

Skip: I'm sorry?

Kiri: there's a learning lesson behind it.

Skip: oh is that right?

Kiri: uh-huh. I will reveal that at the end of the month.

Skip: okay.

Kiri: okay Russ, how are you doing? I know you haven't thought about anything as you just said that you didn't.

Russ: right. I have some questions about it.

Kiri: okay.

Russ: and that is, we are picking a place on earth.

Kiri: that's correct.

Russ: now, is this place prior to civilization?

Kiri: no, it is right now.

Skip: oh right now?

Kiri: yes but the planet is uninhabited with what you have on your planet.

Skip: ohh right now?

Russ: let's say it's a major city, wouldn't you have to deal with the buildings and stuff that are already there or do you imagine that they're not there?

Skip: that changes a lot.

Kiri: there's nothing there, there's nothing there, it is your planet as it is now but with no inhabitants and no history. It's a fresh planet but your planet now in your 20th.....

Russ: so we have to imagine a place in present time without the buildings.

Kiri: correct.

Skip: okay, the cites are gone. Okay there's no hard top and cement.

Kiri: no.

Russ: but there wouldn't be any trees either.

Skip: that would be correct.

Russ: because that would be the future and not a past time when there were trees and then they were all cut down to put the city in.

Skip: that's right. The city's gone.

Russ: so the city is gone but so are everything that would've been there prior to the city being there.

Kiri: correct. It is right now. For example......

Russ: these are important keys for me to know before I start making any serious....

Kiri: let's take your current location right? 200 years ago it was a nicely tree'd area.

Skip: uh-huh.

Kiri: where the trees weren't too densely, they weren't tight together, they didn't have all the diseases and everything that they have now. It's now but the houses aren't there, the people aren't there.

Skip: okay alright I gotcha, I gotcha, that changes things.

Kiri: I should've been more clearer on that.

Russ: no but I was thinking about that right after I left and going, "wait a minute, what do I've got to plan on here."

Skip: uh-huh.

Kiri: yeah it is.....

Russ: because I was planning on looking back at the past and seeing, well okay let's....

Kiri: no, that would make it too easy.

Skip: yeah because we'd have known exactly where to set it up in the past.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: because of what flourished.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: okay but if we're setting it up now and all the cities are gone.....

Russ: yeah, what didn't flourish?

Skip: and everything's bare where the cities were......

Russ: Virginia City used to be a city of 10,000 souls.

Skip: I realize that but that was a mining town too.

Russ: right.

Skip: so was Butte Montana, they had over a 100,000 people in it at one time but it was a mining town and nothing would grow there. Did you know that?

Russ: uh-uh.

Skip: on account of the mine waste and the stuff that was dumped out on the ground.

Kiri: that's something else you have to take into consideration.

Skip: I'm sorry?

Kiri: that's something else you have to take into.....

Russ: now are we dealing.....

Skip: now we know.

Russ: now are we dealing with pollution that's there in the area?

Skip: that's right, dealing with pollution and yet not the buildings and stuff that put it there.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: okay.

Skip: okay. That changes.....

Russ: that means you can't put it in any current, civilized place due to the fact that the pollution there would probably kill any plants you're trying to grow or leave you residual stuff that would cause birth defects in the future.

Skip: well not only that but your pollution like you say would be so great that nothing would grow there anyhow.

Russ: right.

Skip: and don't try to use the Los Angeles Valley.

Russ: oh no, that's gone.

Skip: because that is called the valley of smoke even back before a city was there.

Kiri: you see, it's not as easy as you thought it was going to be.

Russ: no I just had to know what the rules were before I start thinking about it seriously.

Kiri: well I do have e-mail Russ.

Russ: well I know darling but I don't want to bother you when you're busy, I know how busy you get.

Kiri: yeah, I do actually. Talking of busy, can we somehow lighten her load?

Skip: who?

Kiri: Karra's.

Russ: that's not till after the delegates go through.

Kiri: yeah I know.

Russ: the dignitaries. Until then she's got responsibilities that she can't break away from.

Skip: yeah that's true too, she's got commitments.

Russ: and she knows that and I know that but there's not anything that can be done.

Skip: that's why I backed off and just told her to relax.

Kiri: yeah she looks very, very tired.

Skip: okay.

Kiri: I offered the guestroom for her to sleep in as long as she wants. I know she'll only sleep for a couple of hours and then go back to her residence and work some more.

Skip: yeah.

Kiri: how much time have do we have left on the recording?

Skip: oh I have no idea, Russ will have to take a look at that.

Russ: oh about five minutes.

Kiri: okay we can burn through that....we can chat idly.

Russ: actually eight minutes and 30 seconds.

Skip: you ornry thing. Oh no.

Kiri: you timing again?

Russ: no, just took a look at the tape though.

Kiri: uh-huh, okay. You think you're that good?

Russ: no but I'm just past experience. I've been doing this for how many years I've been doing this? Seen so many tapes going through right now, you can get it down to a point where you can figure this all out.

Kiri: uh-huh. I don't even bother looking at the chronometer, it's just sort of like.....we'll talk until it's done. But okay, so the project is to find a spot that can be colonized on your planet in the current time that it's at with all the problems that.....

Skip: and 10,000 people.

Kiri: 10,000 people

Skip: alright.

Russ: now what kind of technologies does this 10,000 people have when they get here? Nomadic, civilized.

Skip: oh yeah okay, yeah.

Kiri: how are they getting to your planet?

Skip: they're getting here by spaceship.

Russ: oh well there's the question, if they're getting here by spaceship then, they've got high-technology tools to terraform the area they're in right?

Skip: so it's possible they've got good technology.....right, right. They have high-technology.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: so we're talking terraforming.

Skip: yeah but they'd still have to use a certain amount of hand tools too.

Russ: maybe, we don't know.

Kiri: okay.

Russ: well what if it was a bunch of Sirians coming down right now?

Skip: a bunch of what?

Russ: Sirians. Let's say 10,000 Sirians came down and set up a colony right now. Good God, they have enough stuff they'd never have to go near a city.

Skip: I thought we was talking about human beings.

Kiri: yeah.

Russ: yeah we are but, Sirians are pretty close.

(Skip chuckles)

Kiri: genetically yes......

Skip: no cigar.

Kiri: genetically........no I don't like cigars, the kind of make me itch afterwards.

(joking about the Bill Clinton incident)

Russ: see they would have technology, they would need to be in a city. They could just....

Skip: yeah that's true.

Kiri: ahh you want to bet? When we do or when we did the colonizing in the past, we didn't bring all our high-tech technology because it's bulky, cumbersome and takes up valuable space that is used for other things.

Skip: that's true too.

Kiri: and why take quantities of material such as lumber, ceramics when that's going to be available there anyway?

Skip: oh yeah it's all here.

Russ: ships could be broken down into very usable parts.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: it's all here, you don't have to.....

Russ: you have to figure that there's going to be ships they could break down.

Kiri: well why break down a ship if that's going to be........if something goes wrong on the colony or something happens and you find that the world is unsuitable because of seismic activity, you've broken down your lifeboat to escape?

Skip: yeah.

Russ: hmmm.

Skip: yeah you don't take your ship apart.

Kiri: uh-huh. And, if you land your ship on the planet and start dismantling it, where are the people going to sleep whilst you're dismantling it?

Russ: well you can always......yeah that's true.

Skip: yeah.

Kiri: okay, where you can put them if they become sick? How are you going to feed them if you dismantle where your hydroponic chambers are? How are you going to......but to think that if you're an advanced technology and you're colonizing a planet, what would be on board your ship? How big would your ship be? Big enough to have some.....

Skip: pretty good size. Yeah, it'd have to be a good size.

Russ: they would have multiple ships, at least three like the.....

Kiri: uh-huh.

Skip: no, not really.

Russ: you could have one for just carrying supplies, one for carrying the people, one for carrying the rest of the......

Skip: uh-uh, no you've already said that your technology already advanced, you don't have to carry supplies other than....the supplies that you would only need would be tools.

Russ: no you need things for defense, things for hunting, offense, things for....

Skip: well yeah that's.....you come back down to tools again.

Russ: sure.

Skip: because if you have the tools, you can make anything.

Russ: hmm.

Kiri: okay, here's a little suggestion. You two decide on what technology level you're at. Okay, let's make it a little......let's give you two months and you're going to plan the total trip, manifest, location, don't forget, it's 20th century Earth, no inhabitants on there but as is now.

Russ: yeah you have to scouted it out.

Kiri: yeah you're going to have the whole entire ship's manifest, categories of people doing what, everything that you're going to need to colonize a planet plus the location. I'll give you two months to do that. Or we can do the other one where you just find the location that you're going to be colonizing that has all the suitable requirements. Which are you guys want to do?

Russ: I will do the second one......the two-month thing, I like the challenge.

Kiri: okay Skip?

Skip: yeah.

Kiri: okay.

Skip: I'll go for it.

Kiri: okay you've got two months to come up with a full......

Russ: now how much are we talking, how much capacity has the ship got to hold, did we decide that?

Kiri: it's your ship.

Russ: I can make a pretty, big damn ship.

Skip: well.

Russ: I don't know what the laws of physics are for bigger ships.

Skip: no, the laws of physics don't count because technology's ahead of it. Now there's been some of course Hollywood style okay? Where there's been 2 million people on a ship.

Russ: yeah?

Skip: two and a half million in fact. In "The Visitors", they had....

Russ: 10,000 people could get lost in a ship that size.

Skip: sure you would but "The Visitors", they had over 30,000 people on one ship.

Skip: the new one had 1,800 on it just as crew.

Russ: hmmm.

Kiri: and only one bathroom.

(Skip laughs)

Skip: everybody carried Porta Potty's.

(more laughter)

Skip: no, yeah.

Kiri: uh-huh, you gotta think.

Skip: two months puts us at 1rst of September right?

Russ: now is this.......are we talking.....are we talking hydro..I mean are we cryogenically freezing people, putting them in suspended animation during the trip?

Kiri: that's up to you.

Russ: I mean are they living and breathing during the trip?

Skip: that would have to be your choice.

Russ: so it have to be their ancestors getting here?

Kiri: that's up to you.

Skip: be your choice.

Russ: well I mean the crew would have to....

Skip: now okay, now one other question I need to ask you. How long are we going to be in space?

Kiri: got to work with the laws of physics.

Russ: which are? We don't know the laws of physics in space.

Kiri: then you've got to find out.

Russ: we don't have that information really, not for something that big a project.

Kiri: let's say it's a five year trip.

Skip: five year trip?

Russ: five year trip.

Skip: that's fair enough.

Kiri: okay, five year trip.

Skip: okay.

Russ: I can work with that.

Skip: five years okay and you've got 10,000 people, all right, gives me what I need to know.

Russ: hmm.

Kiri: so that will give you guys something to think about.

Skip: first of September you want a report.

Kiri: correct.

Russ: okay.

Kiri: before things start to get hectic around the apartment.

Russ: okay, very cool. Hey by the way, do the Brotherhood of Light have any kind of logo or symbol or anything?

Kiri: probably, probably for easy earth recognition for the people that they're dealing with but what it is, don't ask me.

Russ: I don't know, I know what Ashtar Command's is, that's pretty easy.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: it's an A with a little spaceship in the bottom or in the middle.

Kiri: with a wing.

Russ: yeah with a wing right.

Kiri: I never liked that design.

Russ: I didn't either, I'm thinking of tweaking it out a bunch.

Kiri: hey, it's all over the base.

Russ: well that's what I'm thinking of doing, I'm thinking of taking that design and just really just bringing it up to the 21st century.

Kiri: which 21st-century? Are we talking 21st A.D. or BC?

Russ: 21st-century, third dimensional Earth.

Kiri: ahh okay. I was about to say, are we talking Sirius.....

Russ: that's the weakest graphic I've ever seen. I mean I understand that it works good it's easily understandable but still it's like........

Kiri: you have to remember also, it comes in different colors and incarnations on the base as well.

Russ: true.

Kiri: three-dimensional, metallic, reversed. Some of them are obtuse like, you know there is a logo that right outside the corner bar?

(the eating and drinking establishment near Kiri, Tia and Mark's apartment)

Russ: the Hades Base logo?

Russ: I did not know that. Hades Base has got a logo?

Kiri: no the Ashtar....

Russ: Ashtar Command logo yeah.

Kiri: but you look at the garden there, you'll see it in the garden.

Russ: okay.

Kiri: but the only time that you'll see the whole entire thing, is early, early in the morning and you don't get up that early.

Russ: no I don't.

Kiri: I've been up that early a few times, leaving the corner bar.

(Skip chuckles)

Kiri: hey, I was sober, well reasonably sober.

Russ: you were just staying awake to see it.

Kiri: no, just enjoying myself.

Russ: all right well I'm going to tweak that symbol out a bit and....

Kiri: a few Sirian clarets.

Russ: I might work on designing a Brotherhood of Light symbol too.

Kiri: you'll have to ask them.

Russ: yeah.

Kiri: okay I think the tape's about done.

Russ: no, we've got another.....oh, should've been done two minutes ago.

(Skip laughs)

Skip: well darling, you have a good one.

Kiri: you too.

Skip: I'm going to head down the hill tonight.

Kiri: okay.


THE TAPE ENDS