Set Circumstances For Growth- Channeled (09/18/97)

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Archivist Notes: A large number of titles for this month's podcast were available to choose from but after listening to Omal's dissertation, only one kept repeating in my head and was the natural choice to use. "Set circumstances occur in your life that challenge you and make you grow....". I had to focus on that this month because so many things life are mysterious but knowing the life changing events in our lives are meant to be life changing helps explain reality a little better. Going to school, I faced set courses to graduate from and in each course were set lessons required through the teacher's syllabus that I was required to learn. That life has set circumstances that are mandatory puts it into a perspective that makes it more understandable if I look at it as a series of tests prepared and placed in my path exclusively for my growth. Sure, why not? That's better than saying everything in life is nothing more than random coincidence.

   So it with that Tia starts the night off for mere minutes prior to handing off the channeling couch up on the base to Kiri who as promised in last month's podcast gives a very detailed dissertation on coercion and the morals needed before even considering becoming adept at this skill. Kiri lays out the moral dilemma that can arise when someone on the 3rd dimension learns how to use their mind to control someone else. So important are the lessons given that it takes up most of side one and goes over quite a number of morals that form the structure to allow a safe use of coercion. Several warnings are given over the corruptive nature of this skill through basing the morals on the ten commandments is offered to help make the decision on whether or not to coerce somebody. She wraps up her talk with a look back at some of the corrupt coercers throughout the history of Sirius and how one started out doing bad but redeemed himself in the end. Omal takes over to finish side one with a dissertation I will be using to the end of my days as a template for growth. He lays out where he has been taking us in his teachings and how he is now focusing on the self, the advancement of the individual.

    Side two begins where it is left off with Omal expanding on how growth happens and why there is such a need for it. He points our that it is through our interactions that we grow but that no matter how many times we repeat the same interaction, it will be different every time and that is the catalyst to make us more than who we were before the interaction. Tia takes the time then to go through her dissertation of the session on how desire for something can be a distraction from an important task. She is speaking from experience after seeing a dress a visiting dignitary was wearing and falling so completely in love  with it that it became a source of humor during a previous session. Karra and I start in on a plan we had been considering of a new age center but Tia brought up some problems that would have to be dealt with first. Problems such as people having the misconception that a goal of raising human consciousness might be seen as the beginnings of a cult. She also pointed out the shyness that both she and Mark both could be subject to and how Kiri's playfulness could somehow obscure the message.A compromise is settled on in the form of a newsletter and so it is Kiri who takes up the rest of side two helping with the business side of making that happen.

TIA Ring Mistress MARK (Channel)
KIRI RUSS (Archivist)




2.)(10:47)- Karra and I knock around some ideas for a new age center and the problems with getting such an endeavor off the ground.

3.)(27:09)- Kiri lends a hand to her sister in looking at the business side of such a center and the costs involved and how to promote it.

Part 1 Listen to this episode (RIGHT CLICK AND OPEN IN A NEW TAB OR WINDOW)
Duration: 45:59 min. - File type: mp3
Part 2 Listen to this episode (RIGHT CLICK AND OPEN IN A NEW TAB OR WINDOW)
Duration: 33:06 min. - File type: mp3


(Tia is on for only the shortest of times)

Russ: hi Tia.

(Tia says hello in Durondedunn.

Russ: how goes it?

Tia: it goes well, it goes well indeed.

Russ: ahh, good.

Tia: okay, let’s get down to business.

Russ: go for it.

Tia: okay first of all let’s start off with the news. Okay, Al Gore did know what he was doing from the White House was wrong, just thought he wouldn’t get caught. Hasn’t admitted that yet however somebody did say that they drove him across town so he could make campaign calls on another occasion so he was aware that it was an illegal move. Again the nuns and the monks in the Buddhist temple, he knew that was a fundraiser. Okay, Christmas has been canceled. Anyway, in a serious note, let’s hand over to the next speaker.

Russ: already?

Tia: already.

Russ: already.

Tia: uh-huh.

(Kiri begins what she knew would be a long dissertation)

Kiri: okay dude.

Russ: what's up Kiri?

Kiri: okay, morals and coercion.

Russ: oh Lord.

Kiri: here we go. Morals and coercion are very important due to the power of suggested thought from the mind. The reason being that they are so important is the harm that can be inflicted on an individual by stray thoughts of a coercer and the fact that this can lead to an alteration in a person’s pathway and the life's journey that the coercer takes responsibility for. These actions have to be monitored very carefully and stray thoughts from a coercer can cause problems in such a way that it can be a continuing problem not for just for one life but for many lives to come so it is necessary to learn self-control above all others. Having thoughts that interact with other people and being able to manipulate other people is a wonderful skill but misuse of this skill in itself can present major problems. The necessary undertakings of a coercer have to be done with a good and clear conscience. The important ramifications of negative actions of a coercer can lead to a self-destructive pathway of the coercer and the coercee. The responsibilities that a coercer takes upon herself when she is coercing is something that the coercer has to weigh with a good, clear conscience. I repeat those words, with a good, clear conscience. Now coercion in itself has many different types of usages and each use has its own set of necessary rules. Let us take everyday coercion which is the most common that is used. What is right for the individual and how to use a coercive beam to control somebody else. Again, it has to be done with a clear and good conscience, what is right? As has been stated in the past, what is right for me may not be right for you or whoever. But, coercion in itself in the everyday mode is something that does not cause too much problems because the situations do not arise where serious damage can be done but damage can be done and it should be looked at carefully. If you want to coerce somebody to move out of the way, come to you, to sit down, to be quiet, these are all useful things of a personal nature. When you have an express idea to coerce an individual, that is where it becomes more serious and in its serious nature itself lies problems that a coercer may come into, a moral dilemma. Now there are a whole load of morals that are necessary for a coercer to live by. Doing the right thing, not just the right thing for herself but, for everybody involved. So when a coercer decides that she has to coerce, it is necessary for her to weigh what she is doing and to look at it necessarrally to come to a compromise and in that compromise is the starting of morals. Moral one, be prepared to compromise, moral two, do not do it for self-gain. Self-gain has certain clauses, self-gain and progression in one’s occupation. For example, a coercer wishes to coerce so that she can get a better position with more fiscal gain so that she can provide for her offspring and therefore improve their lives. This is not a negative use of coercion but, using coercion in a way that she gets a willing partner who is easy to coerce to create a new life within her, that in itself is negative coercion because that is for self-gratification to continue a lie. That is not done from love, that is done from lust. Lust itself has to be addressed as a moral, it has to be laid out and carefully analyzed. Lust is an interfering factor that cannot be used in coercion because that in itself leads to negative actions. Once you start on that slippery path on using lust to judge your moral standards, lusting for wealth, lusting for somebody, lusting for a contented, self-centered lifestyle, these are all negative and should not be tried because again that affects the long outcome, not just one life, but many lifetimes. Okay, moral number three, purity of heart. Nobody that I know has a 100% pure heart but by using logic and understanding and reasoning, something can become pure in your opinion. This is important, your opinion is the opinion that you must base your moral and coercive attempts upon. With the pure mind that you perceive that you have, then coercion becomes easier. Deciding and judging whether something is right, whether something is of good intent, whether something will benefit somebody, these are all subcategories of purity in coercion. Coercion in these functions serves as a useful everyday tool but not everybody can be a good coercer so if you’re in doubt, do not coerce. Now specific subjects to coerce, people of a destructive nature, I believe my sister has covered in great detail people of a destructive nature. But, using coercion is a little bit like talk therapy and again it has to be done very carefully and cautiously. You do not replace one set of problems with another set of problems or as my sister says, waveform patterns of the brain. This is important to be understood that when dealing with somebody of a destructive nature, you must know when to say no and to disengage, otherwise you will join them in their negative, addictive behavior and therefore your own waveform patterns in your brain will be changed. This will lead to serious psychological and mental problems in a coercer. When a coercer uses these new set of destructive patterns that they have become addicted to, they proceed down a very nasty, dark path where the coercion becomes corrupted and festers within the individual. Again there are certain morals when you are using coercion for a psychoanalyst purpose. One is, do not use it to start off with. This is because when you are using it, first of all you have to gain the person’s confidence naturally without using any coercive skill whatsoever. Two, if the person does not achieve your confidence or you achieve their confidence, do not coerce them. Three, having achieved their confidence, you coerce a little, a tiny, tiny bit at first so that it becomes a suggestive thought within their brain but not a command. As you progress and deal with the problem, now you can start to insert commands but these commands must be thought out carefully. That is moral number four, think out your coercive commands carefully. When you have constructed the necessary framework upon which they can build their improvements, now you step back and watch your pupil or your patient develop for themselves. That is moral number five, learn when it is it appropriate to disengage in a healing of a psychoanalyst nature. Having let them form new structures on the framework that you have given them, you can now start to help them to progress into a more secure way of thinking. By constructing extensions to the framework that you have created, you have given them the opportunity to grow. That is moral number six, aiding in growing what is beneficial for them, not for you but what is beneficial for them to progress on their path and in their progression, they will find that you are no longer a necessary tool, that you are somebody that is now a friend. That is rule number seven, letting go. When the time is appropriate, let them go. Now following coercive psychoanalysism, coercive healing which is normally done in the presence of a healer. The healer does the healing business and the coercer opens up the mind to make it more receptive to be able to aid in the healing. Aiding in the healing is very important, it speeds up the process but it is also necessary for the coercer to understand the purposes and function of the healer. So we have a moral here, moral dilemma. Is it appropriate for a coercer to know anything about healing? Oh yes it is, it is very important, that is why I’m not a coercive healer is because I do not understand the healing in my opinion well enough to be able to aid in the healing process but a coercer that knows nothing about healing can help to a certain extent by soothing the person's consciousness and subconsciousness and distracting them whilst the healer goes about their business. Humor in coercion. Coercion can be very humorous actually, not many people realize that a lot of fun can be had with good, positive coercion. Practical jokes are something that coercers enjoy tremendously and in doing so, you again have to be careful of planting too deeply within the subconscious a set of commands. These have to be done very lightly on the surface but I do not recommend that everybody goes around practicing coercive pranks, that is for the more adept and experienced coercers. I enjoy doing it myself quite a bit actually but that is a hit moot point. But as I was saying, coercion has a very useful tool in humor. Being able to make somebody see that what they have done is extremely silly by making them look without themselves so that they are seeing themselves from somebody else’s point of view makes them realize that some of the things that they have done are very silly and funny. When you are coercing, regardless of whether it is comic coercion, physical healing coercion, mental healing coercion or everyday coercion, it is important to remember that it has to be done for the best of all parties or the individual that is being coerced. Not for your own personal gratification but as I stated there are the few exceptions. One is for an improvement for yourself so that you can provide better for your offspring or those that are dependent upon you. Another one is if it is of a destructive nature and the person could serve no function from the learning experiences incurred by that destructive nature. Three, another example is where it becomes dangerous and the person is not aware that their behavior has become dangerous because they have not perceived that it is dangerous but you have. It is your duty at that point to coerce as a coercer them into a safe or an environment that is no longer threatening for the group or themselves if they are not aware or are not suffering from psychological problems. Lot of if's, and's, but's, or's in there but they’re all important. Overall, coercion is a great tool but has the power to corrupt if you do not think your actions through carefully. Most people on the third dimension do not have the speed of thought to be able to analyze and realize what their actions are going to achieve on the instant, they have to think and plan accordingly in advance. There are simple structures that can be put in as a tool for coercion. First of all stop, think about what you are going to do, think of all the possible outcomes. These three things will help you decide if it is right or wrong. Unfortunately you can’t make a decision in a split-second, you can go on gut feeling and instinct but sometimes gut feeling and instinct is inaccurate. If you’re ever in any doubt, do not…….I repeat, do not…..I repeat, DO NOT coerce. You have any questions?

Russ: one or two.

Kiri: okay.

Russ: all right first off, when you’re using negative coercion okay or for a negative purpose?

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: is the penalty that you accrue through the use of that karmically equal to what the negative coercion you are or do you get backlashed worse?

Kiri: it is amplified, you get backlashed a lot worse, it is amplified.

Russ: why is that?

Three: that is because you are sending your negative energy that creates negative energy from the person that it hits which is returned with your negative energy and their negative energy and anybody else’s negative energy that it interacts with.

Russ: okay. Third dimensional use, for example as you stated when using it to acquire financial gain….

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: you’re still incurring a karmic debt there aren’t you or as I'll call it, karmic loan?

Kiri: could you expand upon that because what you’re saying is for personal gain, is that personal gain only for let’s say myself?

Russ: let’s use the example you gave.

Kiri: okay.

Russ: getting a better job so that you can feed your children. Okay now, is that a karmic debt that's accrued?

Kiri: no………no.

Russ: no? Not at all?

Kiri: not at all because you are in actual fact paying a karmic debt, you are……because you are involving your offspring, whether it is one child or many children, you are therefore providing for them so that they have a better chance to advance and what you are doing is sacrificing a little bit of your self for them so that they can have a better environment. This makes it non-karmic because you are doing it for the common good of your children.

Russ: well this is the first time we’ve actually included children, usually it’s been just you yourself getting financial gain. If there is no children, wouldn't it be better not to use it at all?

Kiri: it depends on the set of circumstances. There are so many different variables that could be interjected. We could sit here and analyze this one in itself indefinitely. Let us say you are the best person suited for that job.

Russ: uh-huh.

Kiri: and that you see that with you doing that particular function, you would improve the people that you are working for, you would improve their lifestyles, you would improve the growth of the organization you’re working for and the overall group…..

Russ: ahhh.

Kiri: the people that are dependent upon them. Again that is like having children, you are sacrificing yourself for others, that makes it good.

Russ: I see.

Kiri: when it is specifically for your own personal gain and your own gain alone so that you can accrue vast financial gains, then it becomes negative because it serves no other purpose than for yourself. However, if it is part of a long-term plan that by making yourself fiscally stable, that you can settle down and find a bond mate who is willing for you to sacrifice yourself to continue this function so that they can raise the offspring or to be taken care of by you, then you are involving somebody that you are sacrificing for so that they can be better off themselves.

Russ: I see. So essentially if we're looking at it from a higher point of view, higher dimensional point of view, we're actually the ones who are going to judge this in the long run.

Kiri: correct.

Russ: we’re going to be able to look at it from the point of view after the fact when we determine whether or not we did negatively or positively……

Kiri: correct.

Russ: so we’ll have all these factors to add in at that point…

Kiri: correct.

Russ: so at the time you just work with your intuition.

Kiri: correct. It is something that when you are dealing with something like advancement within a organization, it is not now that you are thinking about, it is later.

Russ: ahh, thank you. Okay, now for when using it for healing purposes…..I’ll go onto that section you covered….

Kiri: okay.

Russ: in which you’re working with patients or subjects, now the use of coercion will tend to bond these people to you.

Kiri: okay first of all let’s differentiate between mental healing and physical healing.

Russ: okay.

Kiri: okay which one are you talking about?

Russ: physical healing.

Kiri: physical healing, I know very little about physical coercion. That’s why I skipped over it very lightly.

Russ: okay how about mental?

Kiri: mental yes, I know how to do that.

Russ: okay now won't these tend to bond themselves to you?

Kiri: yes but as I explained that knowing when to stop the coercion is important. Being able to ease the person away from you is also important and the necessary skills involved in that. People will tend to see you as some wonderful person and the normal thing to do is to let them continue seeing you as a wonderful person and when they find out that you are fallible and you do make mistakes, then your image will be tarnished and they may even be disgusted and turn around and head straight back to their negative pathways. If it is done carefully and in a particular way, for example, let us say…..let us take a fictional person. Say I heal somebody that has suicidal tendencies……

Russ: uh-huh.

Kiri: and they latch on to me. Now I have to make them realize that I am not all wonderful, that I’m not all good so I would do things that would raise a question in their mind. I would discuss with them and as I’m discussing with them I would insert the thought that I am fallible, that Kiri Tanaka makes mistakes. So therefore the seed is planted for them to think that I am fallible, that I am after all only Sirian and I do make mistakes. Then I would deliberately make a mistake, just a small one but I would wait a decent interval of maybe a few hours or a few days and make a mistake and they would see that I make mistakes and that would make them think with the coercive seed that is planted, it is like pouring water on the seed that it would start to germinate and they would still think I’m a good person but Kiri is after all only Sirian and she does make mistakes. You see?

Russ: uh-huh, okay…..

Kiri: but it has to be thought out from beginning to end, from the start of the mental healing to the end of the mental healing. It has to be thought out bit by bit by bit.

Russ: alright, this takes us to my last and most important question of them all. In sixth dimensional, especially on Sirius……..

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: you have schools…..

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: that teach coercion……

Kiri: yes.

Russ: that teach all the basics that you just went over.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: we don’t have anything like that down here. Well, can we start something like that down here if we' for example if i put this on the web, this is going to people all over the world?

Kiri: correct.

Russ: well, how about people start schools of coercion?

Kiri: yeah, it’s something that I can’t interject. I cannot say what will work down there, I only know what works on Sirius and what worked in the past.

Russ: right.

Kiri: so therefore I can’t say go ahead create schools.

Russ: oh I know but I mean it would seem to make the most logical sense that we put in a theory into an actual hands-on……

Kiri: well there actually are a search of educational facilities that do handle coercion or rather they set up the morals to handle coercion and these are religious, educational facilities that teach good morals. Unfortunately most of them are aimed towards making priestesses and priests but these things can apply.

Russ: right.

Kiri: that the morals of being pure of heart and good and so on and thinking things through are there already. It is just a matter of being able to spread them and to be able to get everybody to follow those positive thoughts and to achieve that goal.

Russ: okay. That’s fine with me, it’s just seems a little bit of a shaky institution to be teaching coercion through, they don’t call it coercion.

Kiri: no they don’t.

Russ: and so you’re not really learning the basics of how to deal with coercion.

Kiri: no you’re not but indirectly you are because it teaches the moral structure. I will admit I’m very playful, I enjoy making love tremendously but I do have very strong morals. I will not do anything that will harm anybody, that would I think fall under thou shalt not kill. I will not use coercion to cheat, I will not use coercion to take somebody away from their bond mate, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s husband. I will not use coercion to cause destruction, thou shalt not kill. I will not use coercion to get somebody under my sway to do my bidding whatever that is, thou shalt not steal. You see?

Russ: yeah, yeah, I understand that it’s just we have those same principles we learn in Sunday school.

Kiri: but it’s the principles that are useful. You can take the Ten Commandments and use them in a way that is a good moral tool on making the correct decisions for coercion. And by wording them carefully and slightly differently, you can lay down ten laws of coercion. They are not suggestions, they are things that you obey.

Russ: all right.

Kiri: you see?

Russ: uh-huh.

Kiri: okay, any more questions?

Russ: no, that’s all I’ve got for right now, I'll have to think about this.

Kiri: hmm, how long did that take? That took up quite a bit didn’t it?

Russ: not that long.

Kiri: well we started that…..

Russ: about 15 minutes?

Kiri: uh-huh, yeah but it is basic behavioral patterns that are important within coercion. You see, coercion through the ages has been used and abused.

Russ: right.

Kiri: on our home planet, Tonar the Corrupt, powerful coercer. Good example, great example. Tonar the Magnificent, also a corrupt coercer, that was after the ascension. (From the Sirian Chronicles podcast.) Hurrah the Brave, another corrupt coercer although he did try to redeem himself, that is why he's called Hurrah the Brave because he did great harm in his youth but he started to understand the moral dilemmas that he had created and the necessary plans and actions. Actually he's a good example of what was thought of as negative coercion to start with turning out to be good in the long run.

Russ: uh-hmm. Yeah but where is Honar the Brave here?

Kiri: Hurrah…..

Russ: oh right.

Kiri: he’s been dead for quite a few thousand years.

Russ: I mean that he could be reborn and reborn and reborn.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: he must’ve achieved some sort of enlightenment from his turn of ways and he might be on someone’s Council now for all we know.

Kiri: that is something that we would not concern ourselves with because what he had done in the past he had learned from.

Russ: correct but that’s what I mean, he went through the necessary lessons so…..

Kiri: yes but at the time what he did was that he had people constructing and cutting down and clear cutting an area. Did great harm to the land and he had an industrial complex and all the yucky pollution that goes with that but, from the research facilities and the things that were related to that came out with good things that were able to clear up the area that he had destroyed and replant it and return it to back to how it was. He had done great harm in his first 500 years and when he realized that he was heading on a very negative path and all these people that were in his control that did his bidding that had no thought of anything else but to appease their master, he started to change and to realize that he had to redeem himself by doing things and restoring the balance. What it had took him over 450 years to do, he restored it in 200 and restored the balance and also the technological advances that came from his corrupt period in agriculture, horticulture, all the necessary interactions with that from that period in his life in the long-run became good. You see they had to or he had to go through those steps to achieve where he was going so it was looked upon to start off with that he was doing great harm but, when he decided to change radically and to advance towards a specific goal that would be good, he had to make some very hard and dangerous choices which made him look very brave.

Russ: hmm.

Kiri: hence the name that he got in the last 350 years of his life, he didn’t live to be 900 because of how hard he pushed himself in the last 350 years. He pushed himself very hard and his actions were looked upon as very brave and long-reaching….

Russ: ahhh.

Kiri: and by taking those gambles and putting in action a whole load of events that are still even felt today. The love for the land in that area is beyond belief.

Russ: I see, well thank you, that makes a lot more sense.

Kiri: uh-huh, any more questions?

Russ: uh-uh.

Kiri: you got questions but you just want to get me out don’t you?

Russ: well I am a little concerned about time.

Kiri: oh okay.

Russ: come back later if you want dear.

Kiri: we’ll see.

(Tia returns to hand off the channeling session to Omal)

(Tia says hello in Durondeddunn)

Tia: okay.

Russ: hi Tia.

Tia: hello, okay going to put on the next important speaker.

Russ: all right.

(Omal finishes up the side)

Omal: greetings Russ.

Russ: greetings Omal, good to see you back again.

Omal: yes, thank you. Okay, let us look at Kiri’s dissertation. Long, very long. Very informative, very eloquent and a little muddled in patches but it works out nicely in the long-run. There is very little to edit apart from the little bit of frivolous chitchat in the middle there. Okay, Tia’s brief dissertation at the start or her stabs at humor, she should not eavesdrop before channeling sessions but that is Tia, that is her humor. Okay, let us get down to business and address a new set of topics, a new subject, development of the self. It is a little step from what we have been dealing which is self-love, self-loving morals, the benefits of the group, this is now a discussion or a dissertation on the individual and individual growth, individual spiritual development. And in looking at the development and the understanding and the consciousness necessary to achieve growth is something that is up to the individual. Is it right to force, as Kiri would put it, your point of view on somebody? That is up to you, that is part of the learning of self-growth, making that decision. We cannot tell you it is right or wrong or I cannot. It is up to you to formulate for yourself if something is right or wrong and in the growth that comes from these internal debates and that is what they are, internal debates, is the advancement. With the interaction with other people, you grow, you learn, you breathe, you live, you grow and growing is what all my dissertations are about indirectly. They give you a framework of patterns as Kiri said, a framework to build upon and in doing so, the growth that comes within yourself blooms into a flower which can be seen externally. The confidence that you walk, the weight in your voice, the appearance of understanding, the appearance of people needing to seek you out for your advice, this comes with self-growth and self-understanding. And with this understanding and growth, you can start to affect other people. But growing for oneself is important, to be conscious of how you interact and develop and the love necessary for you to advance. Are you awake Russ?

Russ: of course I’m awake.

Omal: you were breathing deeply.

Russ: no, that’s the cat.

Omal: ahhh yes, so it is. But, growing and taking care of yourself. Kiri talks about what is right or wrong for the individual or the person that is being manipulated but it is also important first of all for yourself to grow and what is right to help you grow. Set circumstances occur in your life that challenge you and make you grow and the growing is important, how you grow is up to you. As I have stated many, many times, I can’t tell you how to grow, how you should grow, why you should grow, that is up for you to understand and reason out. Do we have any questions?

Russ: yes when you mentioned about the necessary love that is needed to grow from, you have to achieve that through a long process of learning how to love.

Omal: correct. It goes back to my dissertation that I believe you have just put on the Internet about self-love.

Russ: self-love correct.

Omal: and even though this is the next step on and over, it does interact with my previous dissertations that I have given in the past.

Russ: right.

Omal: and in a way they interact with the dissertations that Korton has given about communication. If you were to put Korton’s dissertations, his last two dissertations and my last three dissertations together and put them side by side, you would see that there are certain patterns and structures that are formulated together which set up necessary structures to be built upon.

Russ: okay, when you speak on the growth and the love necessary, we’re actually dealing with a question of strength aren’t we? I mean it’s easier to not love almost and it takes more strength I think to love everything than it does to just be ambivalent or…..

Omal: yes ambivalent is a better way to describe what you were thinking.

Russ: right.

Omal: not to love suggests the opposite.

Russ: okay no, it’s just apathetic, ambivalent, just you don’t care about things, you just deal with them and relate to them in a way that it’s just life.

Omal: yes.

Russ: that's the easy way out.

Omal: that is the easy way that achieves nothing, you do not grow.

Russ: right, so you’re talking about actually gaining an amount of strength as if you're exercising your muscles. If you go into the gym......

Omal: yes, in a simplified way yes.

Russ: okay, well that’s what I’m trying to work with, so in a simplified way to let people understand more of how to take your lessons and how to apply them in their lives.

Omal: correct. In a simplified way, yes but it is a little bit more complicated than just learning how to love, it is learning how to interact, when not to love, when not to do something, when to do something, why you do something, why you do not do something. It is a set of structures that are there to be built upon that works for you. As has been stated, what may work for me may not work for you. This should be put down as a commandment but we do not give commands. It would be a good idea to say this is a suggestion for growth, what works for you may not work for me.

Russ: so let’s say that you have a person who’s just as we mentioned apathetic on life in general who loves occasionally, like gets happy about movies and certain events in his life and things he reads the news and other times it’s the other way, the other direction. Would it then be an ideal way to do this is to start a regimen of….

Omal: no, no it would not and this is why.....

Russ: okay.

Omal: that when you see that something is wrong and you set up a regimen, you are creating strict, non-flexible pathways. There has to be times where an individual hates something and at other times that individual loves that same object that they hated. It is a balancing act…..



(Omal gets back to the discussion without missing a beat)

Omal: how do we do that? Well it is through interaction that we learn that an individual that neither hates nor loves does not grow, we’ve stated that.

Russ: correct.

Omal: but, interacting gives you experiences from day-to-day things are different. Let us say we pick up a inscribing object. We could pick it up many, many different ways. We could pick it up by the point, the end, the middle, the upper middle, the lower middle, the middle middle and so on. We could pick it up from the left, the right and again so on. These are the same thing.........something that you do repetitively but it is still interaction in different ways and so by interacting in different ways you grow.

Russ: hmm. Okay so if you approach a situation, one which you're going to be interacting in, is there perhaps then something to remind yourself that when you go into this situation, something that makes it more happier than you would normally would be? Like just a statement……not a statement but a…..just a reminder like a Post-it note on your brain?

Omal: yes kind of, kind of but again it is by pure interaction. Things change second-by-second, minute-by-minute, hour-by-hour, day-by-day. Things interact differently all the time due to the density of the air, the lack of density, the humidity, the temperature, the wind, all sorts of factors interact upon an object or an individual. The time of day, the time of night, the amount of sleep, the amount of non-sleep, the part of the day, whether it is beginning or end or so on makes interaction different every time.

Russ: how about the strength of the photon cloud?

Omal: that waves and flows and ebbs and grows and dissipates as you pass through it as been stated many, many times.

Russ: right so it does have an effect then?

Omal: correct.

Russ: okay.

Omal: and the interaction is different from moment to moment. Last question.

Russ: okay, so basically when we are going to go through and put this into our lives now….

Omal: uh-huh.

Russ: what we are doing is we are shooting for growth so therefore when we enter into interaction then, the best thing to remind oneself is growth?

Omal: do you want a yes or no answer on this?

Russ: unless you have a dissertation to go with it.

Omal: I could give a very long dissertation…

(Russ laughs)

Omal: but it would be too long at this point. Okay…..

Russ: okay.

Omal: as I’ve stated, interaction and growth vary from moment to moment. This is an answer that cannot fully explain how it works or why it works or how it should work but it is the best answer I could give without going into a detailed, long dissertation with no opportunity for you to discuss it due to the fact that this is the last question.

Russ: okay.

Omal: that is your answer.

Russ: thank you.

Omal: live long, prosper and, I’ll be back.

(Tia's back and can spend some time with me this time)

(Tia says hello in Durondedunn)

Russ: hi Tia.

Tia: yo.

Russ: I always like making those last questions really good ones.

Tia: uh-huh and long as well. I could almost picture Omal going…..

(Russ laughs)

Tia: okay now it’s my turn. As ring mistress I get to decide when I give my dissertation or not but first of all let’s look at Omal’s dissertation and analyze it and look at it and see what can and cannot be put on the Internet.

Russ: now that you’ve gotten chewed out for that one, where do we go to next?

Tia: I didn't get chewed out.

Russ: oh which, no I’m not going to go there.

Tia: what, my dress?

(a dress she had seen on someone who was part of a visiting delegation)

Russ: yeah, yeah that’s it.

Tia: what about it? Okay, dissertation on longing because this in itself, my dress, my dream dress, the one that I want actually opens up a very good moral topic and that is desire. Desire for something that is a distraction, something that we can’t have and the want and the lusting for that object in itself can be destructive. The things that you’ve pointed out are good examples of looking at something and wanting it and pursuing it to the point of everything else becomes irrelevant. This is wrong, this is a wrongful behavior hon.

Russ: oh I know.

Tia: but it doesn’t change the matter, we will deal with that and the fact that I’m in love with the dress later on but what I’m saying is that when a thought becomes all-consuming that you want one item and do whatever it takes, it becomes a destructive behavior. And if you do not think out all the options that can occur and by planning and working towards your objective to achieve that goal but taking into consideration all the other things that are interactive with that in itself, then you turn a negative into a positive experience on planning on how you’re going to get it, what is the right way about going to get something, not just seeing it and going, “okay, I’m going for it”. That is wrongful behavior because you’re not thinking clearly. When you think clearly and aim for a goal, then you are thinking constructively like a good thinking person. Anything, any animal, that cat for example, the feline, if it sees a piece of meat that it wants it will go for it. Anybody can do that, see something and they go for it but if you think of how you’re going to get it without jumping over somebody, walking on somebody, whatever and how you're going to get the person that has it to give it to you, that’s where you turn a negative into a positive because you're now thinking of something that becomes beneficial for everybody involved. By thinking things through and planning on, “the time is not now, let’s wait, it’s not appropriate at this time”, that in itself is a beneficial thing. Any animal can go for something straightaway, any animal can act on its instincts, any animal can act on its hormones and chemicals but what makes a person better than an animal…..and I’m not putting animals down, I’m saying that instinctual behavior and I’m differentiating about it…..but something that is instinctual, a desire now to have it straightaway in itself can be destructive. But, by planning and scheming and using your brain, you’re working that brain out and by going about it in a way that is beneficial is great. Any questions?

Russ: well yeah, a lot of times your instincts are controlled by your body…

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: again, it's the same thing with like potassium, all of a sudden you have an urge for bananas you can’t understand but, "boy that sure does look good".

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: I mean these are urges that best are not controlled because your body often times knows better than you are what it needs to maintain itself on.

Tia: yes but when you go, "okay I need bananas, I need them right now", that is destructive because you may be doing something that is very important and that needs your whole entire attention and the thought of the bananas just pounding away at you becomes a distraction. Controlling those urges, controlling those thoughts is the important thing. Putting them to one side and say, ”okay, I will deal with that later at a more appropriate time.” Hmmm......yeah but…..oh well nevermind, I’ll put on the next person.

Russ: all right.

(Karra's uses her channeling time for a brainstorming session)

Karra: hello.

Russ: hello Karra.

Karra: how’s it going?

Russ: oh you’re just full of good ideas tonight my sweetheart.

Karra: yes thank you but Tia was actually quite correct when she was talking about things being a distraction, thoughts that are instinctual being distracted and destructive.

Russ: right.

Karra: very well thought out on her part I think.

Russ: uh-huh.

Karra: okay, I don’t have any dissertation or anything because we’ve been doing a lot of work together over the last few days.

Russ: yes we have but very productive work, I’m taking a week off.

Karra: good.

Russ: I’m not going to touch anything on the webpage, I’ll think about it…..

Karra: oh no, no, no, no, no.

Russ: okay but I do have to make that change on your side, on your section there to fix that coding error that’s got it all blue.

Karra: how long will it take?

Russ: 10 seconds…

Karra: okay.

Russ: well 15 if I FTP it in.

Karra: okay so if you change it, you will mark the time that you finish and that your computer is switched off. Let’s say you go in and you do it and it is 9:48 which I believe it is now correct?

Russ: 9:50 but yeah, close enough.

Karra: okay, 9:50 on the 16th of September, 1997, you will not touch the webpage. You can touch and play with your computer for seven whole days.

Russ: right, so I can't think about it either?

Karra: correct.

Russ: all right. That’s tougher than actually working on it.

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: alright then let’s talk about something that is on our minds right now.

Karra: okay.

Russ: you know what that is.

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: beginning or working on the development of some meta-psychic university, school of thought, whatever…..

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: class I don’t know but more involved with that because there’s more to it.

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: well we have a beautiful location up here, I’m sure we could find an excellent place that we could hold it in. People would come from all over the world to come and study in such a place in a way that it would be very harmonious with nature and yet lots to do in the meantime when the evening time came.

Karra: keep talking for a second, I’ve got Tia’s talking as well, she’s making a few comments.

Russ: okay, so what you would do is you'd essentially get on the web and you would invite speakers, teachers, students and all to come to Lake Tahoe to some place that you had set up. Part of that of course would include a web kind of thing where you could Spirit chatrooms on the web, involved in the same kind of thing like teaching new age thought or psychic skills over the web in a cyber classroom you might say. Bringing in people for seminars, lectures…

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: channeling sessions, basically having teachers from all of the world, all of the galaxy, all of the universe.

Karra: yes, Tia’s brought up some interesting problems.

Russ: okay.

Karra: ones that I didn’t even think of. She goes, "what is the long-term outcome?" And the ones that we’re thinking of is the advancement of education, the advancement of knowledge, the advancement of understanding.

Russ: well and also the ability to start gathering groups…

Karra: together yes.

Russ: together or sending people out to begin groups.

Karra: Tia brought up the topic of cults.

Russ: cults?

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: why would that come up?

Karra: because some people would perceive, she put it this way that some people would perceive what you're try to do as a cult-like behavior.

Russ: you mean like Jim Jones or something?

Karra: yeah something like that or the Heaven’s Gate organization.

Russ: well there must be a way around that.

Karra: yes but it is something that would be the biggest problem and in doing so she said that there are things that both you and Mark do not desire that would happen.

Russ: yeah, publicity and lack of privacy.

Karra: uh-huh, that’s just one thing but she brought up the subject of cult leaders becoming not only figures of joking ridicule but also figures in history, figures that become religious figures and neither of you two want that.

Russ: well there is another option that is available......

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: is finding someone who’s already doing that and assisting them.

Karra: yes.

Russ: for example, remember that place that I read about in…..where is it?

Karra: I remember vaguely.

Russ: yeah it was in the Sedona thing.

Karra: yeah, emergence.

Russ: Journal of Emergence yeah and it was about somebody who is doing something right there. It’s only like what? Two hours away.

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: and they have like seminars and classes and charge tons of money for it but maybe doing maybe a seminar every other month or so?

Karra: yeah.

Russ: kind of that thing.

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: how it would be not starting one yourself but at least helping somebody who’s got one on.

Karra: if that would be a better way to go but you have to be very careful about cults. Tia brought up a very, very valid point I feel.

Russ: well for example those people, they aren't considered cults, they're considered a retreat.

Karra: uh-huh, yes it would be a something that would be very, would be better than the way that we were going. It’s handy sometimes when we discuss things on the intimate mode, we tend to overlook things....

Russ: right.

Karra: and having Tia as an external party and Tia’s way of thinking which is different from any third dimensional earthling that I know and any sixth dimensional Sirian I know. She has a very unique way of looking at things which is very useful and also the fact that Tia sees things because of her different perception in a very different way that she reads people much, much better than you or I sometimes.

Russ: uh-huh.

Karra: and the goal that we're going to is being able to pass out the information. The Internet thing….

Russ: hmm.

Karra: I believe you’ve already got that in action with the chat rooms and of course the Hades Base News.

Russ: yeah we’ve got sort of the same thing going now.

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: and it’s just it’s not as one-on-one as I’d like it to be.

Karra: no but then…

Russ: sort like one-on-hundreds.

Karra: yeah but even in a chat room or not in a chat room but in a lecture room where people are discussing it is no longer one-on-one. In fact it is far less then a select number of individuals being invited to a chat room to discuss with Kiri or Tia something going on.

Russ: hmm, true, true.

Karra: and when you have 15 or 20 people in a room, not only the fact that we have to deal at that point with Tia’s shyness and Kiri’s playfulness or showmanship, we also have to deal with the fact that the anxiety from the host.

Russ: right.

Karra: he’s not much in person on giving lectures in his physical form and the fact that he would have to be under a lot of stress and be expected to astral travel and to let in somebody in an environment that he’s not sure about, would be very stressful for him.

Russ: oh yeah in an ideal situation, let’s say we’re in Sedona or something, it might work.

Karra: uh-huh, in an ideal situation.

Russ: I think what we need to do is, do something that start up various.......hook up with different groups maybe on the net.

Karra: well and also newsletters.

Russ: well we do that with the web…

Karra: uh-huh but I mean…..

Russ: with the Hades Base News.

Karra: but people that don’t have access to the Internet. Most of the people you know do have access through the Internet but what about Johnny?

Russ: yeah true.

Karra: what about Cindy?

Russ: hmm.

Karra: what about the groups down in Sedona that no longer have contact with Omal?

Russ: hmm.

Karra: see a newsletter is the first step.

Russ: that’s a good idea actually.

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: I guess we could just take, take it right off the web, publish the webpage maybe?

Karra: some of it yes. One second……really…..I know that you have newsletter publishing software don’t you?

Russ: oh yeah, I did it for Heavenly.

Karra: uh-huh, apparently Tia just told me that Mark is getting a graphic animation newsletter publishing setup.

Russ: is he now?

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: oh I could certainly donate the article but we could like us say just take it right off the web.

Karra: yeah, but instead of taking the whole entire thing and just printing it up off the web which would be maybe once every three months you would have enough for newsletter, you take let’s say a month’s editorials and news and one dissertation and then you would have from that your feelings on the dissertation, Mark's feelings on the dissertation. If people write in, you would have their letters and our answers and maybe from Sedona because that’s the market you would be aiming for it to start off with….

Russ: uh-huh.

Karra: you would, we would go let’s say, "okay Omal said this but let’s look at it from line-to-line and what we think he is trying to say as Omal is known to use analogies and imply things for our own constructive educational learning" and how does it apply and interact with a day-to-day. "Well on a day-to-day basis it interacts or I have found that it interacts this way, in my life." You see?

Russ: uh-huh.

Karra: so you take those items and you do it that way.

Russ: how many pages would it be though?

Karra: maybe four.

Russ: and that's front to back...hmm.

Karra: well no it would be eight in total. There would be pictures, a little cartoon section, something like a picture of a person with an ax over their head, a computer and the computer saying, “strike any key to continue.”

(Russ chuckles)

Karra: or a picture of a skeleton lying next to a computer saying, “congratulations, you have now logged on to AOL.”

Russ: you picked that one out of there.

Karra: you were where it came from.

Russ: okay.

Karra: but things like that in a newsletter would be a useful tool and you could put in also a discussion on astral travel and all the problems that are involved. There are many different possibilities that you could come up with.

Russ: hmm, a top 10 list.

Karra: a top 10 list of the most silliest world events.

Russ: top 10 ways to tell if you’re astral projecting correctly.

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: number one……okay.

Karra: tape should be getting pretty close to being over I’ve just been informed.

Russ: all right.

Karra: you want to check hon?

Russ: nope, you got a long way.

Karra: a long way?

Russ: yep, a long way.

Karra: okay, so you see there are so many different possibilities. The university or college or whatever would be something down the road, something that we work for…..

Russ: maybe after things go kind of worse for wear and cults aren't even worried about.

Karra: correct, correct.

Russ: I see what you mean.

Karra: yeah but Tia did bring up a good point with that little comment about cults.

Russ: right but hey, it’s nice to get that out where it needs to be.

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: because there is safety in numbers and right now, two is not a number.

Karra: no.

Russ: well unless you count the cats.

Karra: well actually it’s a little more than two.

Russ: I know but it’s still a minimal amount to what would be necessary to have a viable community with growth and prosperity.

Karra: uh-huh, there’s somebody else for the newsletter, Skip.

Russ: yep.

Karra: uh-huh.

Russ: how do we advertise it? Through the……

Karra: Emergence.

Russ: Emergence, that would be one way.

Karra: uh-huh. Okay, let’s get the business expert in.

Russ: okay.

Karra: as Kiri comes wandering back over. Okay, I will hop out and we'll put the business expert back in.

Russ: all righty.

(Kiri returns to share her expertise with us)

Russ: hey Kiri.

Kiri: yo okay, okay now what are we looking at? Okay business, business, business, business.

Russ: yep. So we have printing costs, time involved….

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: mailing costs…

Kiri: uh-huh, okay.

Russ: paper.

Kiri: paper, ink.

Russ: ink.

Kiri: transportation costs.

Russ: what transportation costs?

Kiri: going to the post office which during the summer wouldn’t be very much but let’s say you’re stuck in traffic because of roadworks or you’re stuck in snow?

Russ: right.

Kiri: now, there is a way around that, to cut down the costs down is advertising.

Russ: right.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: I'll agree.

Kiri: yeah, things that you could add into it is cooking tips, healthy eating, how to dress a dog properly.

Russ: put it in a little suit with a little hat?

Kiri: well I just thought I’d get that in there because of Tia but we're running short on tape time.

Russ: okay, what else?

Kiri: okay, now let’s look and break it down bit by bit. Okay we’ve got cost of paper, cost of printing, editing time, delivery time, mail costs, ink costs. Now, as it grows, let’s say you start off with maybe a mailing list of ten people and you do eight pages in total to start off with, but you can add in in the letters section which can either come in through the web and what you can do is advertise it on the webpage and you can advertise the webpage in the magazine or in the newsletter......

Russ: right.

Kiri: so you kill two birds with one stone. With people advertising in it, spiritual supplies, you don’t stick to one topic. News from Hades Base is the primary thing but you could have things from Celtic organizations so that you appeal to a larger group because marketing is the important thing. When you market something, you have to unless you want to be real selective, then you have to go for a wider group. If you're doing a newsletter and you want to reach as many people as possible with as much information as possible, you have to use other groups as well. And thinking about it, it could be a useful tool to have a debate, an ongoing debate with the Arcturians and the Pleiadians and the Zeta’s in the newsletter, their forum which means that you increase the number of people that you’re going out to.

Russ: right.

Kiri: now the interesting thing is, the more copies you make, the lower the price is.

Russ: right.

Kiri: let us say a year's subscription and it costs a dollar a subscription and you do 12, so that’s 12 of your dollars. Shipping and handling let’s say make it 20 bucks a year but that’s not going to cover you. So let’s say each copy is $.25 so $.25 multiplied by 12, right for a year? And then you would do.......well that would be three bucks a year for signing up for the newsletter and to receive it plus shipping and handling which would bump it up.

Russ: right.

Kiri: so people could order instead of one copy two copies, each copy being an extra $.25. Let us say that you're sending it to a store in Sedona.

Russ: uh-huh.

Kiri: and say it’s a popular commodity, you could send it out it at bulk rate which would be like $3.00 which they would pay plus $.25 for each one, let’s say you send a 100 right?

Russ: right.

Kiri: so that they would actually be receiving........or they would be able to charge what they wanted for it....

Russ: uh-huh.

Kiri: whereas you would be getting $.25 plus the three dollars shipping so that would be $25.00 correct?

Russ: uh-huh.

Kiri: which hopefully would cover the cost of printing and so on and the tape is almost over.

Russ: we'll have to use our new computer do that on.

Kiri: uh-huh, or use Mark's graphic animation capable and he turns it into an FYI file and he mails it to you.

Russ: umm......


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